Your turn play?

westside8 · Sep 03,2007, 01:45 PM

This hand happened last night and was wondering if anyone would take a different line.

Game was pretty passive for the most part. Average 3-4 per flop and quite tight with 50% of the hands not going to showdown. Not sure if thats the norm for $10/$20 though.

Hero is in SB with Q7. 2 limpers and hero completes. Flop J76 rainbow. BB bets out and called by both limpers and hero calls.

Turn Q giving hero two pair. Do you

1. lead out
2. check-raise
3. check-call?

Part 2 coming later.

Hobbes · Sep 03,2007, 01:48 PM

I'd bet it.

NoVeLTeK · Sep 03,2007, 01:57 PM

i'd bet out and if raised check-call river

westside8 · Sep 03,2007, 02:57 PM

Should probably add reads...my mistake.

BB is a straight-forward, uncreative player. Doesn't play too many hands.

Limper 1 is a calling station (cue the jokes from KW players), will call any # of bets with OESD/flush draws etc etc. Limper 2 seems to be a decent player. Have seen him make plays based on players more than just cards alone.

moose · Sep 03,2007, 03:16 PM

Bet Wes. Even if BB had top pr, with all those callers, he may be afraid of his kicker and check. Everyone else flat called the flop so unlikely they have something great. If limper2 had raised the flop, a c/r might be a play but in this case, the most likely bettor is the BB and a c/r won't knock anyone off any draws.

If you bet, hopefully BB raises and helps protect your weak 2 pr. There are now 2 straight draws out there. Turn check/call is the worst idea.

Hopefully it is 2 bets to the limpers and anyone who flat calls 2 bets cold probably has you beat and you can check/call or check/fold the river.

liquidfire · Sep 03,2007, 04:22 PM

i would bet it..

another reason to bet it is so thin out the field..

westside8 · Sep 08,2007, 10:44 AM

Ok..part two.

Hero donkishly checked the turn, and BB fires, limper 1 folds, and limper 2 pops it.

Does hero...

Cold call?
3-bet?
Fld?

STR82ACE · Sep 08,2007, 10:50 AM

Great time to check/raise here...pump it up

moose · Sep 08,2007, 12:42 PM

Calling station isn't going anywhere so fire away. Just be aware one of your Q outs is gone.

GTA Poker · Sep 08,2007, 01:02 PM

Given your position and the flop action I go to check-raise the field here.

westside8 · Sep 08,2007, 07:21 PM

Btw..I mean limper 2 poping = raising the BB's bet (just in case it wasn't clear)

m_dolens · Sep 09,2007, 11:04 AM

gotta raise here with two pair. the chances of improving that hand is not great (approximately 8% on the river). i personally think check raises are overused way too much in poker. check raises should only be used in very specific situations and holding two pair is not one of them i would argue.

ScoobyD · Sep 09,2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Given your position and the flop action I go to check-raise the field here.

Ditto. I don't see how leading out either improves our chances of thinning the field or punishing players with draws. Thus, I'm C/Ring here for value. If the BB is uncreative he's not raising a J if you donk into him. My only worry would be if he'll shut down with a J and the LP and other player check through their draws.

GTA Poker · Sep 09,2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m_dolens

gotta raise here with two pair. the chances of improving that hand is not great (approximately 8% on the river). i personally think check raises are overused way too much in poker. check raises should only be used in very specific situations and holding two pair is not one of them i would argue.

ok, so how does he raise when first to act in the pot...you just made the argument for check-raising for value

ReefAquarium · Sep 10,2007, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m_dolens

gotta raise here with two pair. the chances of improving that hand is not great (approximately 8% on the river). i personally think check raises are overused way too much in poker. check raises should only be used in very specific situations and holding two pair is not one of them i would argue.

I have a great amount of respect for this poster but I disagree. (m_dolens)

When do you checkraise??

I checkraise a lot. More than anyone else at the most tables.

Why?

Turn:

I do a lot of raising on the flop taking shots at pots and raising to thin the field. If the guy to the right of me bets and I have 2nd pair I autoraise it if I'm going to play and then often check on the turn.

In order for my observant opponents to give me free cards on the turn, I need to check raise a lot on the turn so that the observant opponents don't think my turn checks mean a license to steal.

So for my style of play I check my good hands quite often on the turn to good players - and then checkraise if I'm raised.

Flop:

Headsup against good tight aggressive players if I'm out of position I often checkraise any hand I'm going to play. So they learn my flop checks don't mean I'm weak.

When do you checkraise?
Do you guys think I'm checkraising too much?