ReefAquarium

How much bankroll do you need to play 10K events?

10,000?
100,000?
1,000,000?
10,000,000?
100,000,000?

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Not smarter than a grade 5 or Kristy Sea

BlondeFish

Answer: none of the above. The correct answer is only $170! Just win the first $170 satellite you play, then just win the first $1,240 satellite you play, then voila, you get to play in a $10K event with a bankroll hit of only $170.

An average or median player paying $10,300 cash for the WPT NAPC will have a -EV loss of -$500 ($300 fee + ~2% staff gratuity taken from prize pool), so an above average player who paid only $170 has an EV of well over +$9630. If that player dreams of playing in a $10K event and does not need the cash, then he is correctly maximizing both his utility and EV by playing instead of selling the voucher for $9630 or less.

If the Waterloo prodigies waited for their poker bankroll to reach $1 million before taking +EV shots at $10K events through satellites, then they would still be waiting years from now instead of being WPT/EPT millionaire champions this year. Had I sold the $2,100 seats that I won at the Casino Brantford satellites last year instead of taking the +EV shots at the Ultimate Poker Challenge, then I wouldn't have built up my bankroll and would still be stuck playing at the micro buy-ins.

Just because you don't particularly like tournaments doesn't mean that you should deprive +EV tournament players from maximizing their utility by getting to experience big events through cheap satellites. So let's say that I win three or more $10,300 vouchers, are you saying that I should sell ALL of them at a discount because I don't have a $1 million bankroll, instead of using one voucher and take a +EV FREEROLL shot?

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May your EV always be positive.

actyper

I think 100 buyins in the standard. So to play $170 sats regularly, you would need a $17k bankroll. But IMO this is only for full time play. If you're a part time recreational player, taking stabs here and there, bankroll isn't as important.

herschelw

As a professional player I'd say 1 million dollars at minimum.

ReefAquarium

. I'm considering playing some of the Fallsview sat's... but I think I should probably sell the seat if I win a 10K...

Let's say you have a bankroll of 50,000 and you win a 10K seat that you can sell for 10K. Prudent bankroll management would be to sell the 10K seat since that would put one sixth of you bankroll in play ... It really does not matter how you got the 10K seat. ..

Thoughts?

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Not smarter than a grade 5 or Kristy Sea

BlondeFish

As one of the people that understands EV-maximization, you should obviously seek out a rake-free satellite first before playing a raked satellite. When you win $1,240, you can play the rake-free satellite for the $10,300 seat. It would be a nightmare -EV situation if forumers end up playing in the same raked satellite where up to $860 is being taken out of the prize pool. I played in a satellite last week where half of the players were my friends, and it was so stupid to pay $290 in rake instead of organizing our own satellite; we were forced to butt heads against each other, and the one winner was a total stranger. As always, IT DEPENDS. Selling the seat for only ~$9630 and sacrificing a little EV as shown in my example is correct for YOU since you do not derive much utility from playing a WPT tournament. For others, they would rather use the $10K for hookers and blow so they should sell it too. However, for those who dream of playing in a $10K event and are willing to do whatever it takes to win that $10K whether by buying in directly or winning a satellite, then they are acting as rational, utility-maximizing individuals in realizing their dream. For me personally, if I win more than two seats, I am making the correct utility-maximizing choice by using one voucher to take a FREEROLL +EV shot...
while selling the remaining vouchers for hookers and blow!

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May your EV always be positive.

actyper

Just don't include it in your bankroll!

pokerJAH

I guess it depends whether you are a gambler or not and you want to quit your day job; a lot of previous winners of these big events got in through online satallites, etc. for a fraction of the cost. If you want to chase the dream, keep the seat and cross your fingers. Personally, I would sell it and likely use some of the proceeds to play more sats and other lower buy-in decent structure tournaments. I rather play 20 x $500 tournaments than a single $10k tournament.

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Vegas June 15 -19