compuease

Uh, villian #1 already bet enough to put Greg all-in... unless he can dig into his pocket...

I think you mean villian #1 don't you?

800OVER

Being the results oriented reader....so did you call and what did the villain have?

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Redington

I bitch that this guys is the luckiest sob when he flips Qx for the full house or even funnier that it could be AA that didn't have a chance to reraise

but you cant really fold either... if this guys is down as much as you say then this bet is almost 100% a missed draw and trying to scare you off the pot

If you think that this could be a well designed tilt bet because he knows that you would think he has shit and you would call him with just TPMK then there is no way this guy is down 10k BB, he is thinking way more then most

it fits either way, a missed reraise with a power house and calling the whole way to try and build a pot then doing the super aggro donk move of betting 2x pot with da nutz

but man this guy is a bad player.... and these are the places that the will be more bad then good

push my chips in the middle, but say "man you outplayed me on this one" so even if you catch him he knows this move might work next time too

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Ofcourse I call, my cards are soooooooted.

ReefAquarium

Call and it's not even close.

Based on the description of the lagtard. You must call.

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blackmagicz

I am still on the fence with this call or not. Without knowing the full texture of the board I can't make a reasonable deduction of the LAGtard's hand. I realize you have trips with AQ as kicker but I would first deduct what possible holding LAGtard could come in with. I understand he plays any two cards under the sun but there is always a pattern to every player's play and from what you have said you have played with him enough.

Ideally I would still want to qualify some sort of range for LAGtard calling on the flop whether you can deduce he has trips as well, well would he be playing ace rag, K rag...

The next important piece here was the fact you did not open the betting again on the turn. Your option to check here forces you to call any action on the river because you are getting exactly what you wanted the LAGtard to do. Make a huge overbet. The other play is null and I don't worry about him for a second, he was coming along with best a pair....he was playing on the fact that LAGtard was in and he wanted to grab him.

The fact that LAGtard tells everyone to shut up leads me to believe he has a monster and doesn't want anyone wising up to the fact that he is not playing like a moron and they should just call his massive overbet. To further quantify this you would have to recall times where he made overbets and on what boards did he make these bets on. Once again there will be a pattern to these kind of bets (ie LAGtards I have played against, try to push people off of made hands when scare cards come, or board pairs on the river.....etc)

I know its against conventional wisdom but playing the levels here I think villian knows you have a monster (because of your image) and is looking to stack you. But because you did not checkraise the turn you can't know for certain. With this scenario especially you are either way ahead or way behind. There are no close calls here.

In this situation I close my eyes and make the call crying.....I personally would have tried to keep control of the pot to prevent huge decisions on the river.

These are some keys that I keep in mind when playing in these type of aggressive/gambling type of games:

1. Hand ranges/betting patterns
2. Metagame - what is villians perception of you...intelligence to lay down hands or are they going to call with anything just to crack you
3. Big hands, big pots, anything under a set I am controlling the size of the pot
4. Pot control. I want to make sure I am forcing villian to bet what I want him to bet or what I am comfortable calling.

Try those little tips out and it will help you with these situations in the future.

pkrfce9

nice analysis, ted. thanks!

i'm curious how you suggest i control the pot here?

you wondered about previous patterns. i'm trying to think of examples but in reality, this guy only has one gear. in terms of my image, he knows he can get me to fold a 'good' hand. in this case here, he could be pretty sure i might fold something as strong as AQ.

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blackmagicz

I think a lead on the river will give you a better indication of strength. I know it sucks to slow the villian down but its better than having to make a decision on the river knowing very well Villian is overbetting the pot in an amount that you are uncomfortable to call right away with, even though your hand related to the board and the action is really strong, but may not be the nuts. I also think the villian at that point on the river will be confused and will just call because now he is unsure of your hand.

As for folding AQ...I think AQ is an easier fold then trips in this situation. I would have no problem mucking top 2 here with a paired board because my feeling with 3 people in is that I am in second place and I need the Ace on the river to chop or give me the winning hand in this case a fullhouse.

A lot of times the in this case the river card really is a brick and it doesn't change the hand values (unless the obviously flush card, straight card,etc comes with people check calling...)

SuitedPair

I agree. From this I would put V1 on the AQ or a medium kicked Ace. Much easier hand to bet in this situation than to call with and if this guy is as tardy as you describe the Q on the river would look like the pot of gold to him.....unless he was bet strongly into.

I would think his attempt to shush the discussion would be in an attempt to give you the chance to call.

It's a tough call though and sounds like you thought about it really well which is good. I would insta-call that. But as I've said elsewhere I'm not very good yet. Just trying to get into the discussion to try and raise my own game a bit.

So, how long until you reveal the pay off? (and please don't let it be Fold and mucked Villain. If it was, make something up

SuitedPair

oops. didn't realize how old the thread was......