herschelw

getting 12 to 1 preflop without a doubt you have to call with 86s. In these really spewy limit games where you get a capped pot with 6 callers 86s is the typed hand that gets paid off amazing well when you hit it. Limit holdem is all about playing the correct odds. It's much more a science where NL is an art.

adpro

I don't play limit, but lets say you hit nothing on the flop. Or, lets say the flop is something like A J 8 rainbow.

Now, you have 6 outs, right? To make two pairs or trips?

Well, chances are someone else has an A, so they are ahead of you. Those 4 pair outs should probably be fully discounted. You also have to factor in the fact that someone else likely has a pair at the moment, and may be beating you with two pairs or a set. I wouldn't be surprised to see a JJ or AA hand here. I feel like the 2 trip outs should be cut in half for proper odds, cause you might already be beat to a set, and I feel it's also possible that two other people hit a pair.

So, I would say you have 1 out if that flop came up, not 6. Most of those outs will just cause you to lose too much money too many times.

So, odds are stacked against you here, if you aren't on a straight or flush draw. The other players are way ahead of you.

In this circumstance, it makes sense to call in your situation, cause if you do hit, you are going to rake in a lot of money. I probably would have been in the same situation as you. If you don't hit, like above, fold right away. I personally like (x)-(x+2) suited cards and like to limp in with them when in good position. When you hit your straight, people can't seem to put you on it and you end up raking in a lot of money from it. You just have to be prepared to fold it fast!

It seems that not only do you need to play limit by the odds, but you have to calculate your odds correctly. Don't just calculate odds of hitting a hand. Calculate odds hitting a winning hand. With an ugly flop to you and these hole cards, you would likely fold almost every time you don't come close to hitting your flush or straight.

Thoughts?

tonypapa1

Well now that I got somewhat of an answer, here is the way the hand went down.

There were originally 8 callers preflop.
Big blind raised to 2 bets.

I was in the small blind position; person to my right was on the button.
When the bet came around to him at 2 bets, he was reluctant to calling but begrudgingly threw the extra bet in. I picked up on this and since the limit is low, I three bet it to be a dick.

The big blind obviously 4 bet it and got 2 other people to fold plus the guy to my right sitting in the big blind. Who was mad at me at this point.....mainly because I was snickering.

The flop came:

6h Kd 8c

Turn was a 9s and river was 2h

Winning hand: Kc5c, (Original raiser had JJ, I think I was holding T4o, lol)

To which this point, the person sitting in the big blind told me that he would have won the pot with 8d6d. So I told him he should have called since he was getting 13-1 on his money. This is how this arguement began.

Pantsonfire

This is a little confusing but I think you are saying the guy on the button had 86. He limped in after several other limpers (okay so far) and then called a raise for one bet after several other callers (still okay so far). So now SB 3 bets and BB 4 bets and it gets back to him with 86s and betting capped and getting 13 to 1 on 2 more bets. These odds would indicate 24 bets in the pot now. Yeah so call with those odds. Folding was a mistake at that point.

The real LOL in all this is players who get pissed off with the betting of their opponents. How could you raise with XX? Wouldn't it be great if we could tell our opponents when to bet, raise or fold!

__________________
"Let me be clear, I don't have a drug problem, I have a police problem"
-Keith Richards

zunni74

Frankly, the only board that can make your hand is 2 pair or up. And with that many players there is usually a chance that someone has made a better 2 pair (I see 2 pair over 2 pair all the time at the casino), a set, or a straight (689 on the board and 7T or 57 kills you (for an example)), larger flushes etc.

I just don't see how you get paid enough of the time to justify the 2 bet call. It just seems like a bad proposition and not +ev enough to take a chance on it.

__________________
"...the monkey looks to make sure we are not playing limit at Brantford." - Redington

zunni74

And if one of his oppt's was playing 92o? or K6o?? or K8? or ... Talk about a beat. Results oriented thinking isn't the way to go here...

But thanks for the rest of the story...

__________________
"...the monkey looks to make sure we are not playing limit at Brantford." - Redington

adpro

I probably would have folded it when it came around to me the first time though, especially with more than 3 people, but I disagree.

If you get a nut straight or a straight flush, you will win, and make a crap load of money. You can still get a nut straight with 6-8. The only way someone can beat you is to tie. Maybe they do hit two pairs, trips or a set. No one will think you had this hand and will likely max the bets out. I think I might like the hand in no-limit better if it hits, though. Again, hitting has to be the winner, not just hitting a pair or two pairs.

Either way, you're right, the odds of you actually making a hand that is giong to rake in more than enough to be worth it are nearly 0, but given his situation on whether or not to call at the time we are talking about, it makes sense.

I fully agree that two pairs in this situation is not a good hand. There are many other two paired hands that will win eaisly. Even if someone did hit a set, it easily beats him. I would be reluctant to see the river with just two pairs assuming that it kept getting raised. You're just asking for trouble in that situation.

So, to summarize my thoughts, I would have folded this hand right when I saw it if I was playing 6+ players. I may limp in with 5-3 players and I would raise it heads up (I have a strategy that works heads up, and I love it!!!!).

If I was in the same situation as him, I would probably have to bleed some chips and play the hand in hopes of hitting. If I didn't hit a hut hand, or close to it, I would likely fold to any big bets. However, in limit you might get sucked to the river, since you will always call that small bet.