A great read, cost me a lot but a great read

Chugs · Mar 08,2005, 03:25 PM

I agonized on this hand, and i'm glad he showed. I'm still playing in the tourney and have made a nice comeback. That hand though was the one i think i was suppose to go broke.

Hand #4799494-18 at Tue3pmA-001 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 08/Mar/05 15:18:59

2holein1s is at seat 0 with 1440.
whasupdoc is at seat 1 with 1905.
chef28 is at seat 2 with 1375.
Chugsalot is at seat 3 with 1145.
M2 is at seat 4 with 895.
Bennyhaha is at seat 5 with 1630.
OFFTILT is at seat 6 with 2125.
rainbo1730 is at seat 7 with 1120.
se7entyx7 is at seat 8 with 955.
ArcturasRand is at seat 9 with 2410.
The button is at seat 1.

chef28 posts the small blind of 10.
Chugsalot posts the big blind of 20.

2holein1s: -- --
whasupdoc: -- --
chef28: -- --
Chugsalot: Jh Js
M2: -- --
Bennyhaha: -- --
OFFTILT: -- --
rainbo1730: -- --
se7entyx7: -- --
ArcturasRand: -- --

Pre-flop:

M2 folds. Bennyhaha raises to 70. OFFTILT folds.
rainbo1730 folds. se7entyx7 calls. ArcturasRand
folds. 2holein1s folds. whasupdoc calls. chef28
folds. Chugsalot calls.

I call the raise with JJ, since i don't want to over committ if i'm up against an over pair or play a coin flip pre-flop against overcards.

Flop (board: 2s Tc 8s):

Chugsalot checks.

I like this flop but decide to see what's happening with the pre-flop raiser. If he has a big pair AA, KK, QQ he's going to put a big raise in likely at this point. This player seemed relatively solid, low VPIP, good hands.

Bennyhaha bets 100. se7entyx7
folds. whasupdoc calls.

That bet is tiny, kind of a want to draw to overcards cheaply.

Chugsalot raises to 350.

Bennyhaha goes all-in for 1560.
whasupdoc folds.

Okay started the hand with 1145, already put in 450 into the pot. My bet would definitely look like i'm committed to this pot. So him putting a move on me is greatly reduced. I decided that really unless he had AT or AK those were the only two hands even theoretically i could beat in that spot, with his pre-flop raise. I couldn't pinpoint it exactly, but i knew i was behind, either to an over pair QQ, KK or a set.

Chugsalot folds. Bennyhaha is returned 1210
(uncalled).

Bennyhaha opts to show 8c 8h.
Bennyhaha has 8c 8h 2s Tc 8s: three eights.

Hand #4799494-18 Summary:

No rake is taken for this hand.
Bennyhaha wins 1090.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe for other's that is any easy fold, but for me it was really hard.
Do you think my flop check raise, was the right approach.

Chugs · Mar 08,2005, 04:27 PM

In classic fashion i managed to bust out just outside the money as always. top 20 paid, i ended up busting out 30th.

Shortly after the above JJ hand, re-built my stack and had an above average stack the whole way. I think i gotta find some way to stop being so stupid just outside the money

ScottyZ · Mar 08,2005, 04:35 PM

Nice fold, and certainly not an easy one.

I like making some kind of aggressive bet on the flop. I probably would have lead out for 100-150, but going for a check-raise seems fine too.

The important idea is that making some kind of play at the pot on the flop is the way to go since:

1. You have a decent chance of having the best hand, and your opponent is likely to be on two overcards if you do.

2. If your opponent raises you (or even just calls, depending heavily on your opponents betting/calling pattern), this shows real strength. If you checked & called here, you will probably end up playing a guessing game on the turn & river. (Check & fold is a smidge on the timid side of course...)

Also, I rarely advocate slowplaying, but I think your opponent with the set of 8's should have flat called the check-raise. (Although I do think the 88 betting out initially is the right play.) He's got position on an opponent who is almost certainly drawing very slim on this uncoordinated flop.

ScottyZ

ScoobyD · Mar 08,2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

He's got position on an opponent who is almost certainly drawing very slim on this uncoordinated flop.

There's a flush draw which may worry him (although I would find it a fairly aggressive play to check raise with the nut flush draw here out of position). And previously said, he may have thought his opponent was pot-committed.

To the original post:

Quote:

That bet is tiny, kind of a want to draw to overcards cheaply.

Or...I have a monster and want action!

Trying to differentiate between the 2 is tough sometimes. I like the check-raise though. You should be able to get a hand like overcards (AK or AQ) to fold here which is ideal. If you get played back at that shows a ton of strength. Nice laydown...

ScottyZ · Mar 08,2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

There's a flush draw which may worry him...

Whoops, missed that.

The 88 played it just right.

ScottyZ