Hand Analysis - Raise/Re-raise/re-re-raise

pokerJAH · Feb 27,2007, 07:46 PM

What would your next play be in this situation. No info on the other players at the table. Would you have folded or raised? These were larger raises than usual at this table.

0.05/0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:58:29

Seat 1: pokerJAH (13.81)
Seat 2: A_Wire (15.03)
Seat 3: aaabbb1 (14.52)
Seat 4: Yoshin007 (9.89)
Seat 5: _Vrax_ (11.19)
Seat 6: Nedifen007 (21.77)
Seat 7: toupekilla (10.07)
Seat 8: hwaves (13.57)
Seat 9: tanzbear (13.90)
Seat 10: AcidFlush (6.60)
aaabbb1 post SB 0.05
Yoshin007 post BB 0.10
** Deal **
pokerJAH [Jc, Js]

*** Bet Round 1 ***
_Vrax_ Raise to 0.40
Nedifen007 Raise to 0.70
toupekilla Raise to 1.00
hwaves Fold
tanzbear Fold
AcidFlush Fold
pokerJAH Call 1.00
A_Wire Fold
aaabbb1 Call 1.00
Yoshin007 Fold
_Vrax_ Fold
Nedifen007 Call 1.00
*** Flop(Board): *** : [2c, 8d, 3d]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
aaabbb1 Check
Nedifen007 Check
toupekilla Bet 1.10
pokerJAH Fold
aaabbb1 Fold
Nedifen007 Call 1.10

g2 · Feb 27,2007, 07:53 PM

If you're going to fold to a 1/4 pot bet on a friendly flop like that, just fold pre-flop.

I would have popped it to $3.50 ish pre-flop. If someone pushes then you can fold.

As you played it pre-flop, I would have raised to $4 ish on the flop. Again, if someone pushes overtop you can let it go.

/g2

Eclipse · Feb 27,2007, 08:18 PM

With three raises in front of you (small raises that begged for action, no less), I would have just folded this preflop. Quite likely one of them holds QQ, KK, or AA.

SirWatts · Feb 27,2007, 08:41 PM

Well played. Gotta call preflop for set value alone, and the flop fold looks fine if they have any clue.

Eclipse · Feb 28,2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirWatts

Well played. Gotta call preflop for set value alone, and the flop fold looks fine if they have any clue.

I disagree completely. Not only can you assume that you're beaten, barring the small chance of hitting a set, but I would have assumed it to be raised again after my call preflop. I'm really surprised it wasn't. Getting it bumped up 3 times in a row like that in a small stakes NL game means someone is usually going to push behind you.

pokerJAH · Feb 28,2007, 06:17 AM

Since all of the other players have decent stacks, I thought a call was definitely in order. A raise was probably a good idea so I could see where I really stood. Although I was hesitent to raise after two re-raises as I wasn't going to call if someone else pushed (expecting to see a higher pair, likely aces). So I am happy with my pre-flop call. I guess my biggest mistake was not betting on the flop as I was hoping to hit my trips or get out of the way. I don't try to out wit in cash games but rather play my cards aggressively when I hit a flop. As this flop did not improve my hand, I figured I was still faced with an overpair and the small $1.10 bet on the flop was to entice me with favourable pot odds. With two players to act behind me I was in a sort of sqeeze situation.

pkrfce9 · Feb 28,2007, 06:34 AM

if you assume you are behind pre-flop, your implied odds are borderline ok given a good read of your opponents. but really only if you are sure both will pay you off when you hit and neither has a strong chance to suck out on you.

SirWatts · Feb 28,2007, 06:40 AM

Oops, ya you should just fold because it's too likely to get repopped behind you.

pokerJAH · Feb 28,2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkrfce9

if you assume you are behind pre-flop, your implied odds are borderline ok given a good read of your opponents. but really only if you are sure both will pay you off when you hit and neither has a strong chance to suck out on you.

But how can I fold JJ pre-flop? If I have a 1 in 8 chance to hit my trips, I am certainly good if this happens, no? The raise was only $1.00; if it was re-raised further (an all-in pre-flop), I would have certainly folded. But folding JJ for $1 (even though it is 10x BB), I would not normally agree with.

AcidJoe · Feb 28,2007, 08:15 AM

I put in a healthy re raise or fold preflop. JJ isn't a hand you want to go to war with in a multiway re raised pot. Limit the field or get out of the way.

Big E · Feb 28,2007, 08:22 AM

I likely fold this pre-flop given the action, however once you called, how can you fold to a weak bet on that flop? What did you think you were against?I agree with g2 here and raise the flop and see where you stand!

DrTyore · Feb 28,2007, 09:17 AM

Personally I think that your implied odds are huge - you hit a set, and you're going to at least double if not triple up.

HOWEVER

As Watts and some others said, there's nothing wrong with limping pre-flop here if you close the action, but you're in the middle of a couple or raisers there, so unless you're 100% sure they're going to just call and not re-raise, drop the JJ.

Mark

pokerJAH · Feb 28,2007, 09:44 AM

thanks everyone for your input. I can't say I have seen many hands with this much action pre-flop so I was trying to see what I might have done differently considering I had a pretty decent hand to start with. Looking back, a raise on the flop may have actually won me the hand based on how the hand played out. Here is the rest of the hand in question. If you have anymore observations, I would appreciate hearing them:

pokerJAH Fold
aaabbb1 Fold
Nedifen007 Call 1.10
*** Turn(Board): *** : [2c, 8d, 3d, 10c]
*** Bet Round 3 ***
Nedifen007 Check
toupekilla Bet 0.50
Nedifen007 Call 0.50
*** River(Board): *** : [2c, 8d, 3d, 10c, 2s]
*** Bet Round 4 ***
Nedifen007 Check
toupekilla Check
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.38 Total Pot: 7.32
Nedifen007 [Ks, Ah] Pair of deuces
toupekilla [As, 8h] Two pair eights and deuces - WINS 7.32

pkrfce9 · Feb 28,2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerJAH

But how can I fold JJ pre-flop? If I have a 1 in 8 chance to hit my trips, I am certainly good if this happens, no? The raise was only $1.00; if it was re-raised further (an all-in pre-flop), I would have certainly folded. But folding JJ for $1 (even though it is 10x BB), I would not normally agree with.

how much might it cost you to see a flop? how much can you realistically make when you hit? how often are you likely to get sucked out on when you hit? answer those questions and you can justify the fold.

it looks marginally +EV to call here. given a good read on the players i would not likely fold.

ChrisWinsor · Feb 28,2007, 08:17 PM

... 2 things. I don't think you can give much credit to the reraise and re re raise since they're min raises. Secondly, it's a 5 10 cent table, the quality of play on these tables is horrendous, I would have though my Jacks were good and reraised that flop.