Hands/Hour & BB/Hour

jester777 · Nov 01,2004, 12:01 PM

I just started playing limit ring games recently (I used to stick only to tournaments) and I have a couple questions.

First, does anyone know on average approximately how many hands/hour you can get on an online ring game (10 players)? I keep track of minutes played, not hands played, and would like to know approximately how many hands I have played before I decide whether to move up a level.

Secondly, what is a good win rate (BB/Hour) for a good player at low limits ($0.25/$0.50). So far I've played 1000 minutes (16.7 hours) and have a BB/Hour rate of 5.33 ($2.66/Hour). Is this a 'normal' rate for a good player, or am I just on a really lucky streak?

Thanks!

ScottyZ · Nov 01,2004, 12:46 PM

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First, does anyone know on average approximately how many hands/hour you can get on an online ring game (10 players)?

It varies a lot depending on the site and your opponents, but generally speaking, around 60-80 hands/hour is typical.

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Secondly, what is a good win rate (BB/Hour) for a good player at low limits ($0.25/$0.50).

Due to exceptionally low opponent skill levels at these limits, your "good player win rates" are probably going to be much higher than usual.

Is the game raked? If it is raked, I would guess that you could pull in around 2-5 Big Bets per hour as a rough win rate. In an unraked game, probably this moves up by 1-2 more Big Bets/hr.

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So far I've played 1000 minutes (16.7 hours) and have a BB/Hour rate of 5.33 ($2.66/Hour). Is this a 'normal' rate for a good player, or am I just on a really lucky streak?

Neither of these could be concluded from the data I think. The long run is *very* long. I'd guess that you need well over 100 hours (probably more like over 500) until you can start saying with reasonable certainty that "my hourly win rate is about X".

This is not to say that you don't have the required information to move up (or down as the case may be) in levels. If you think you can beat a game at a higher level, and have the bankroll to support such a move, you may consider giving it a try.

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I keep track of minutes played, not hands played...

Big Bets per hand (or a re-scaled version like BB/100 hands) is actually a better measure of win rate, since this is universal among games of different dealing/playing speeds.

ScottyZ

jester777 · Nov 01,2004, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the info

jester777 · Nov 04,2004, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyZ

This is not to say that you don't have the required information to move up (or down as the case may be) in levels. If you think you can beat a game at a higher level, and have the bankroll to support such a move, you may consider giving it a try.

ScottyZ

I took your advice. I thought I was outplaying everyone at the low $0.25/$0.50 limit so I moved onto $0.50/$1.00 and my results got better!?!?!? Although I only logged 8.5 hours at this level, my win rate was 6.35 BB/Hour.

So I moved up to $1.00/$2.00 which I have now played for 13.5 hours. And, to my surprise again, my win rate improved to 7.82 BB/Hour while playing at 2 tables almost all of the time! WTF is going on?

Why the hell did I just start playing limit ring games

? LOL

BBC Z · Nov 04,2004, 10:29 AM

Your win rate is non sustainable in the longterm (10-14BB/100) so if you dont have the bankroll for 1/2 (which I suspect you don't if you were playing .25/.50) then .50/$1 might be a good spot to hunker down for a while.

I've found that if I move up levels too fast, I get concerned about the $$ swings my bankroll takes even though they are trivial 10-15BB losses for a session.. Getting used to the swings at a smaller level can get you immune to that.

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I thought I was outplaying everyone at the low $0.25/$0.50 limit

Could you expand on your reasoning for this thought? How were you outplaying them?

jester777 · Nov 04,2004, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Z

Your win rate is non sustainable in the longterm (10-14BB/100) so if you dont have the bankroll for 1/2 (which I suspect you don't if you were playing .25/.50) then .50/$1 might be a good spot to hunker down for a while.

I agree with this point. I don't have any illusions about expecting that win rate to continue. I started with $50 on Sunday, which isn't a lot I admit, but now I'm at $367 after only 4 days. I keep track of all my results...
Ring Summary
Limit Summary
Daily Summary

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Z

I've found that if I move up levels too fast, I get concerned about the $$ swings my bankroll takes even though they are trivial 10-15BB losses for a session.. Getting used to the swings at a smaller level can get you immune to that.

I find that by playing multiple tables at once, I am able to balance out the bad sessions on one table with a great session on another table. I think so far I have managed to eek out a +return every time (combining results) when playing at 2 or more tables at once.

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Originally Posted by BBC Z

Could you expand on your reasoning for this thought? How were you outplaying them.

By taking their money

BBC Z · Nov 04,2004, 01:17 PM

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I find that by playing multiple tables at once, I am able to balance out the bad sessions on one table with a great session on another table. I think so far I have managed to eek out a +return every time (combining results) when playing at 2 or more tables at once.

So let me get this straight. You went from multitabling .25/.50 to multitabling 1/2? I think thats a VERY big jump both in bankroll and quality of players.

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By taking their money

Precisely the answer I didn't want to hear. You should be focused on making good decisions not basing results on money won or lost. Only by making good decisions over the long term will you be a winning player.

Anyway, congrats on the shortterm success.. Just be aware the variance goes both ways. 50 -> 350 is great but 350 -> 0 won't be. I'm curious, what site are you playing at?

jester777 · Nov 04,2004, 01:38 PM

I haven't noticed a big difference in playing ability between these limits, yet. The flops seen % is often close to 50% on any of these limits.

I play at River Belle (Prima Poker).