Push or wait

BigChrisEl · Jan 11,2006, 11:16 AM

Here is an interesting hand a friend of mine had and I'm wondering what you guys think he should do? I only start watching him play for a few minutes when this happen.

He was playing a Poker Stars 9 person SnG and there were 3 people left so he was already in the money.

He had approx. 1600 in chips and the blinds were 200/400 and he was in the SB. (after posting the SB he had approx 1400)

The BB had about 7000 in chips and the button had about 5000.

In the small Blind he is dealt

The button folds

The BB has been playing pretty tight not wanting to double him up nor lose their chips to the other player. Also has folded his BB to a minimum raise in this position before.

Do you call, raise or fold?

Tie Twist · Jan 11,2006, 11:34 AM

I'm only folding or raising all in with my hands at this point if I'm him, and this would strictly depend on exactly how tight the BB was. If he needed a hand to defend his blind, I'd push. From what you describe, I think I'd lean towards stealing here...but subtle things always seem to sway me from one side of the fence to another in a spot like this. For example, how often had I been stealing just prior to this hand? If I have an image of stealing (moved in last time I had the SB) I could fold here. If my "vibe" is the guy thinks he needs any K or even Q because I've been moving in a lot then I'd fold.

I'f you have been playing "normal", he's been tight, I'd take a shot here. You probably have at least two live cards if you are called and you don't have much time left. He's been tight, take advantage of it.

westside8 · Jan 11,2006, 11:37 AM

With 1600 chips, its either all-in or fold. It really depends on his image up to this point. Has he been stealing alot? He pretty much has either this hand, next hand (on the button), or the very next hand (his BB) to make a move. You said the BB has been very tight, I would take a shot at this point while the raise is still significant enough for the BB to fold with 2 random cards. If called, he probably had two live cards..and they are sooooooooted!

I'm sure you friend raised and was called right?

Tie Twist · Jan 11,2006, 11:40 AM

Well, this proves I type faster than you Westside.

westside8 · Jan 11,2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tie Twist

Well, this proves I type faster than you Westside.

Can I lay the blame on having two pokerstars tables going at the same time I was trying to type a response?

ScoobyD · Jan 11,2006, 11:50 AM

I think it's a pretty easy push given the stack sizes and the blinds. Especially if you think there's even a remote chance at stealing.Â* If you fold you only have 1200 chips left and you are guaranteed to get called, plus your steal has to get through 2 players next hand.Â* And if you wait till your BB you have to call a push with any 2 I think given the pot odds.Â* At least this way YOU get to choose which hand you get your chips in on.

BigChrisEl · Jan 11,2006, 11:57 AM

From the amount of time I was watching my friend play he was playing very solid poker. He only got short stacked by calling an all-in with pocket Jacks and the other person has Ace-Queen and caught a Queen.

There was no guarantee the BB would call as the last time he was in the SB he had pocket tens, went all-in and the BB folded, he also showed the 10's to let them know he wasn't stealing and from what my friend was telling me the player was very tight.

Irah · Jan 11,2006, 12:58 PM

I think it is a pretty easy all in. Especially since the table veiws him as tight. If he is called, which it looks like he may not due to his image, he is almost gauranteed two live cards and a chance to get enough chips to be a threat.

I vote INSTA PUSH

SirWatts · Jan 11,2006, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChrisEl

The BB has been playing pretty tight not wanting to double him up nor lose their chips to the other player.

Poooooooooooooooooooosh. Cards dont matter.

BigChrisEl · Jan 11,2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westside8

I'm sure you friend raised and was called right?Â*

Nope.

He was asking my opinion and I was suggesting he go all-in, because with the stack he had he has little time to wait and suited/connected might be as good as he was going to get.

He then turn and said to me he could wait for better cards and folded.

On the Button he had nothing so he folded.

As the BB he got J-5 off.

The tight player (who was the BB in the earlier post but now was the button) minimum raised it to 800. The SB folds. My Friends turned to me and said J-5 is better then 4-6 suited and said he was going to go all-in. At which point I was saying no donâ€™tÂ* because for sure the player has 2 over cards if not a pocket pair.Â* Not listening to my advice he goes all-in and gets quickly called by the button.

The button had pocket jacks, nothing helped him on the board and my friend was out.

The reason why I posted is I wanted to know if any thought moving in with 4-6 suited short stacked while in the money was a reasonable thing to do or does anything think about throwing it and waiting for better cards?

AcidJoe · Jan 11,2006, 04:38 PM

The cards don't really matter, even if the large stack is fairly loose any pair, any A any K any 2 cards better than 10 it's a push regardless of cards. Now if the BB will call with any 2 that's a different story he would definately need a better hand. But at this point it's push or fold.

QueenNine · Jan 12,2006, 04:33 PM

I think I would rather pooosh with 46 sooted than J5 off, but then again my fav hand is Q9 so what do I know?

pkrfce9 · Jan 12,2006, 06:17 PM

A tight player would have starting hand requirements that mean he might call your friend's all-in as little as 6 times out of a hundred. The times he calls, your friend has about a 30% chance of winning, given the range of hands the tight player would be calling with. You didn't mention antes but at that level at Stars, there must be antes too.

Putting it all together, this is hugely +EV. Tough move to make with questionable cards but the right one.

Keep in mind, though, the BB will lower his standards if he clues in to how desperate your friend is or if your friend does this a few times in a row...

ScoobyD · Jan 12,2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

He then turn and said to me he could wait for better cards and folded.

Again echoing what SirWatts said, it's not about the cards at this point. It's about the chips.

Quote:

My Friends turned to me and said J-5 is better then 4-6 suited and said he was going to go all-in.

There's a big difference between 64s vs a random hand that might occaisionally fold vs. J5o vs a hand that someone wants to play and has zero chance of folding.

Quote:

At which point I was saying no donâ€™t because for sure the player has 2 over cards if not a pocket pair. Not listening to my advice he goes all-in and gets quickly called by the button.

Strictly speaking, I don't like the advice of folding J5o either. Assuming the button had pushed in your friend there would already be 2000 chips in the pot and it's 1k to call. I find it pretty tough to fold getting 2:1 with an M < 2. Again, a situation where the cards simply don't matter.

Personally, if you have a choice of crappy situation now vs. crappy situation later, I'd sooner get my chips in earlier so that if you do double, you have a bigger stack to go with...

BigChrisEl · Jan 13,2006, 08:39 AM

Thanks for the post guys.

I was just wondering if my advice to him to push with 4-6 suited was a good one or not, hearing your views on it makes me think that my suggestion for him to push wasn't out there.