WWYD

westside8 · Dec 22,2007, 11:05 PM

Another hand that I'm seeking input for.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.comFlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Plain Text)

CO (t12003)
Button (t5800)
SB (t1515)
Hero (t4277)
UTG (t17370)
UTG+1 (t6570)
MP1 (t2240)
MP2 (t4355)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qc, Ad.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t450, 2 folds, CO calls t450, 2 folds

Somewhat of a new table, but I have been playing with CO since the first table and no read on UTG+1.

CO is a very loose player, and neither players an impressive stats on pokerdb. Any re-raise PF will commit nearly half my stack, so if I plan to re-raise I'm should probably just shove. Do you take the aggressive or passive route on this hand and evaluate on the flop?

SirWatts · Dec 23,2007, 03:27 AM

Given the read on CO but readless on UTG+1 I'm pretty ok with either a call or a shove. I'd usually just call, but it depends on how tight you'd expect UTG+1 to be as a default for the stakes/tournament you're playing.

Choron · Dec 24,2007, 10:41 AM

Try to make a point of actually posting hand history rather than typing it up... It is so much easier to read...

-ev · Dec 24,2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choron

Try to make a point of actually posting hand history rather than typing it up... It is so much easier to read...

Try to make a point of actually reading the post before responding... It is so much easier to avoid looking like a jackass.

As far as the OP goes, you could try the old squeeze play but I can't see the point. UTG+1 by default has a good hand. You have 30BBs here. Re-raising would put you in a difficult spot and shoving is a bit of an overbet. As much as I hate it, I probably call here and hope my opponents play it poorly.

westside8 · Dec 24,2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choron

Try to make a point of actually posting hand history rather than typing it up... It is so much easier to read...

Quote:

Originally Posted by westside8

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.comFlopTurnRiver.com (Format: Plain Text)

Thank you for pointing that out.

BBC Z · Dec 25,2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Any re-raise PF will commit nearly half my stack, so if I plan to re-raise I'm should probably just shove

Wait, what? I think yer really starting to move the push or fold line too far down.. Whats wrong with a raise to 1500? Second, the blinds look like they're 50/100 .. So you have an M of 40 and think you are in push/fold mode?

ReefAquarium · Dec 26,2007, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Z

Wait, what? I think yer really starting to move the push or fold line too far down.. Whats wrong with a raise to 1500? Second, the blinds look like they're 50/100 .. So you have an M of 40 and think you are in push/fold mode?

This is a tough problem.

What's wrong with raising to 1500.

Hero has 4277, raising 1500 leaves him with 2777 behind.
The pot will be 2625 if one person calls or 4125 if both call.

In this situation you want squeeze the UTG into a fold. You're probably behind the UTG's range, but ahead of the loose CO's range.

But given the information you don't know if the utg is weak. So I'm not sure you can squeeze the utg out with a 1500 bet.

BBC Z · Dec 26,2007, 02:58 PM

Right, except that you get called by the hands that crush you (and get stacked) but only win 800 chips when yer ahead.

I still think you have enough chips to raise and see a flop without pushing.

You are also making a large assumption about the skill level of the people you are playing, that they will know you are weak and put you to a tought decision on the flop.

Choron · Dec 28,2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ev

Try to make a point of actually reading the post before responding... It is so much easier to avoid looking like a jackass.

So you don't think its easy to open the hand history menu on pokerstars; then to go on and highlight everything; and then copy and paste it to here? Is it easier to actually type it out? Please do inform me before instructing anyone on who looks like a jackass here. Thanks Champ

Choron · Dec 28,2007, 02:34 PM

Be that as it may that he did it elsewhere! lol

westside8 · Dec 28,2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBC Z

Right, except that you get called by the hands that crush you (and get stacked) but only win 800 chips when yer ahead.

I still think you have enough chips to raise and see a flop without pushing.

You are also making a large assumption about the skill level of the people you are playing, that they will know you are weak and put you to a tought decision on the flop.

I'm definitely not advocating a push, but I'm just throwing that option out there. Would just calling preflop and seeing a flop hurt? With no read on UTG+1, the assumption is that I'm either flipping half the time, dominating maybe 25% of the time and dominated 25% of the time (again, very rough #s), while I'm ahead of the CO's range 75% of the time, but I will be OOP for the rest of the hand. It seems like the better option because raising it preflop means I'm putting approximately 33% of my chips into the middle. If called at one spot, my stack = the pot, and with both players calling, my stack = 66% of the pot.