Ever dump to friends?

Graham · Mar 10,2004, 10:03 AM

I play a regular heads up game with a friend of mine @ $20/game

It's NL and we each start with 40 chips.

Ummm....I don't lose to him...I try to sometimes, but I just can't.

even @ $20/game he is into me for $330. Maybe 3 of them were for $40 but that's besides the point.

anyway...I was playing him last night and kept winning back to back, he started getting really very frustrated after losing about $100 so I was considering dumping the next round to him because of the whole speech about "skinning a sheep" a la Rounders. I suspect he may in fact get frustrated enough that he could walk away, although it's not all that likely because we have a long standing rivalry and to him, that would be admitting that I'm a better player...at least in heads up games.

Has anyone here ever dumped for this reason? Keep in mind, this guy has been a friend of mine for a decade now.

p.s: The outcome was that I didn't dump going into the next round...the very first hand going into it, I had 88, and the flop came J, 8, 4

I know he's tiliting and *if* he has a J I'm going to get paid, so I push allin to a $4 pot and he calls in a heartbeat (sure enough with AJ)

*cough* that'll be another $40 please.

Hork42 · Mar 10,2004, 10:08 AM

If he's a friend, and someone with not TOO large an ego, perhaps take some of your winnings and buy him a book?

Maybe he'll learn to play a little better, which would make your games a little more interesting, perhaps a little less profitable for you... But my purpose for playing with friends is not to clean them out.

hork.

Graham · Mar 10,2004, 10:10 AM

Very good point...only problem is, I have this sick/twisted view that I can't shake...

I
like
money.

:lol:

Hork42 · Mar 10,2004, 10:20 AM

Money is overrated...

ahem.

Forget I said that... Anywho. My friends and I have very low-limit buyins for our poker nights. $5 buyin, with .25/.50 limits. Not everyone is into poker as much as myself and couple of others are, they're just there to have a good time. ie. we're not out to break each others bankrolls. With the low buyins, people will lose and buy in again without getting too discouraged, and it keeps them coming out each time.

If I want to make money, I'll play online or go find a game with real poker players.

Is your friend serious about poker, or is this just a casual "We have nothing else to do, let's shuffle and deal" thing?

Sloth - btw, I sent you a PM. just wondering if you gots it.

hork.

djw · Mar 10,2004, 10:28 AM

I don't think I would play a friend in this manner either, just not worth the drama.

professor · Mar 10,2004, 10:29 AM

sloth...

let me play him instead

(I know who you're talking about.)

ScottyZ · Mar 10,2004, 10:35 AM

If you really do want to dump chips to him this is easy. Just loosen up and make a few bad plays.

For example, just overbet the pot all-in with top pair, mediocre kicker. This accomplishs (at least) three things.

1. It disguises well the fact that you are dumping.

2. This may be actually the best hand and your opponent may make an even *worse* play and call you with less.

3. If your opponent beats you with a hand like top pair, good kicker, it will further serve to convince him to keep calling your all-in overbets with this type of hand in the future.

I personally wouldn't soft play or dump chips to anyone. This is leaving the realm of poker and entering the realm of hustling. If you already own someone at poker, why do you need to change anything? If there's one thing I've seen time and time again, it's that bad players will keep coming back and losing again and again and again. You don't need to lose to them to encourage this behavior-- they're either addicted to losing or poker (or both), and throwing them the occasional win isn't going to change that.

Don't forget that the brilliant thing about poker is that, without you even trying, *they will sometimes win anyway*. For most people, this is enough to keep them on the hook for more.

And if you feel the least bit sorry for them, you're playing the wrong game bro. 8)

ScottyZ

all_aces · Mar 10,2004, 11:31 AM

I have this new hold'em table and on most weeknights it's just sitting there, looking at me. So, if me and my girlfriend get bored, we play a NL heads-up tournament. She doesn't know how to play *really at all* except for knowing what beats what.

I show her no mercy. I am undefeated.

If she checks, she has nothing, so I bet. If she bets, she has at least top pair, so I usually fold.

We're not playing for money, but I can't let her win. She's gotta learn how to play the game...

If she gets too frustrated, I let her beat me at a game of backgammon.

Graham · Mar 10,2004, 03:11 PM

well, we're playing heads up again tonight, so i'll let y'all know how it goes

esool · Mar 10,2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hork42

If he's a friend, and someone with not TOO large an ego, perhaps take some of your winnings and buy him a book?

Maybe he'll learn to play a little better, which would make your games a little more interesting, perhaps a little less profitable for you... But my purpose for playing with friends is not to clean them out.

hork.

I have thought about helping friends out in this manner also but here is the problem: Once they become better players they may take my money while keeping their own, I don't like that.

Also I have givin a couple of friends some minor advice and...well they don't listen so f**k it. I am not here to save the world.

Sloth:
I ran into a similar problem a little while back. I good friend of mine who is a good poker player comes over early for a party. While we are waiting for people to show we play heads up for $50. I win 3 in a row.
Then he wants to play for $150...What am I to do?
We were just supposed to kill some time and look what happens....He ends up losing $500 to me in an hour and a half!
I don't feel cool about taking that kind of money over a quick "light" game of cards from 1 person.
I tell him to give me only $250 and don't worry about it. He does..I'm happy and I am sure that he is almost happy.

Jeremy · Mar 11,2004, 12:05 AM

He must be a really good friend and not that good a poker player to give up that $250 bucks to! I have a friend, and we often play heads up 'mini-tournaments' when we have a free moment. There is no way either of us would cut the amount won/lost.

Jeremy · Mar 11,2004, 12:07 AM

I guess that next time you lose $1k to him, it will be nice to only pay him $500 :twisted:

esool · Mar 11,2004, 06:21 AM

I agree with you. If you are big enough to make the bet then you are big enough to pay it, is normally my moto.

I was actually surprised that he took my "reduced offer".

He lost 3 hands at $50 a piece then he wanted to go double or nothing. I tell him that's not cool but....I win...(-$300now) Next game he says ok lets play for $200, so I beat him again..

I tell him he should have kept it at $50 per game x 5 games = $250
I myself would have paid the actual amount lost..But I also would not have got in over my head like that either..

Anyway, I didn't dump to him and he will not receive another reduced offer in the future so hopefully he learned his lesson.

Also I am not a great player and I was just hitting the cards, a few times on the river when all in.. :lol: :shock:

ScottyZ · Mar 11,2004, 09:31 AM

Quote:

I was actually surprised that he took my "reduced offer".

Why on earth would you be surprised at him not turning down you giving him $250?

Quote:

He lost 3 hands at $50 a piece then he wanted to go double or nothing. I tell him that's not cool but....I win...(-$300now) Next game he says ok lets play for $200, so I beat him again..

Here's where thinking ahead would have helped. If you knew at this point that if you win the $200 tournament you were going to give him back *$250*, why would you even play again? After this tournament, you are either going to be at +$100 if you lose, or +$250 if you win and give your opponent $250. That sucks considering you are +$300 without playing. Even if your strategy was instead to pay him back half of the winnings no matter what, you still can't play again because you are risking $200 to win only $100.

Quote:

Anyway, I didn't dump to him

True enough, this is not dumping. Usually with (cash game) dumping, the context is that you do not want your opponent to know this is happening.

Quote:

and he will not receive another reduced offer in the future

Good.

But I don't like your wording here ("reduced offer"). Let's admit that you simply gave him $250 bucks. You're not some kind of car salesman giving a customer a discount, and it is absolutely irrelevant that you happened to just win $500 from him.

It's worth repeating. You gave him $250 of your own money.

Quote:

so hopefully he learned his lesson.

Here's where I think there is a flaw in you reasoning. If this opponent has leaned anything, it's that you are capabale of paying him back a good chunk of money after a significant win against him. He might be thinking that next time, he can also play for these kind of increasing large stakes. And if he suffers a large loss, he may try to look sad (or whatever) and try to get the same treatment from you. Possibly he'll even expect it. There is now the potential for a bizzare situation down the road if either you take a big loss and want him to pay *you* back half, or he takes a big loss and you *don't* give him half his money back.

Unless you have confronted him specifically about this issue other than what you've told us here, he has probably leaned the exact opposite of what you think he has learned.

I think you have actually already made the best point yourself:

Quote:

I myself would have paid the actual amount lost.

And this is precisely why you should have taken the full amount from your opponent.

I appologize if I'm sounding overly harsh in this post. It is certainly not meant to be any kind of "trash talk"--- I'm just trying to "help you help your bankroll".

ScottyZ

Graham · Mar 11,2004, 10:03 AM

Well, last night was uneventful as far as my heads up game goes...it didn't happen...had more company than I expected (2 other guys showed up) and one of them didn't know how to play.

No one had money, so we had mini $0 tournaments to teach the new guy.

Surprising how much my game changes when there is no money at stake at all. I found myself thinking "if I just go out now, I can take the garbage out while they finish...oh look! 10,2! i'm all in!"

Funny thing is the board came

A 10 2 7 A

my caller had QQ. I was gooooooot until the counterfieting poop on the river...oh well, I took my garbage out.