call or fold?
so i was at rama the other day playing 2/5 nl usually a 1/2 player have been playing 2/5 more lately so i get KJ suited spades five spots from the blinds everyone folds to me so i decide to raise it up to $25 get two callers after me and the big blind calls
flop: Jd 5s 2h
big blind is first to act and bets out $30 trying to figure out where i am in the hand i reraise it up to $80 dollars get two callers after me and big blind calls the reraise
turn: As
big blind checks and i go out with a $100 bet guy next to me goes all in for $200 more and the next guy thinks for a bit and calls leaving him with less than $50 left big blind folds now should i call or fold? well what i did was fold but was that the right decision? what do you guys think i had the correct odds to call and everything but i just couldnt stop thinking the guy beside me had A5 or A2 and turned me... well since he was all in i ended up seeing what he had..... he had QJ:mad:
flop: Jd 5s 2h
big blind is first to act and bets out $30 trying to figure out where i am in the hand i reraise it up to $80 dollars get two callers after me and big blind calls the reraise
turn: As
big blind checks and i go out with a $100 bet guy next to me goes all in for $200 more and the next guy thinks for a bit and calls leaving him with less than $50 left big blind folds now should i call or fold? well what i did was fold but was that the right decision? what do you guys think i had the correct odds to call and everything but i just couldnt stop thinking the guy beside me had A5 or A2 and turned me... well since he was all in i ended up seeing what he had..... he had QJ:mad:
Comments
i think your just steaming
There was $900.00+ in the pot.
The As gives you the nut flush draw.
The max you would have had to call is $150.00 more.
You shouldn't play cards like that if you are so willing to give it up. You had more than the odds to call, and the turn provided you with so many more outs even if you are beat. And, this is not for your "tournament" life, it is a cash game and you can reload.
I don't think with the way this hand was played out, and the circumstances, I could ever fold here...If they were deeper stacked at the point of the turn...well that would be a different story..
I am curious, just how much of a stack did you have left when you folded?
~Shar
Your call is $200
You're gettin 5.4:1 odds on your money
Your odds of hitting a winning card (worse case scenario) is 46:7 (any non-board pairing spade) or roughly 6.6:1
The odds of winning the hand are bigger than the pot odds.
Fold.
Mark
Mark
wouldn't it be 39(46-7):7 or 5.6:1? also, the J might be an out as well (2 more possible outs). I would call given it is pretty close and since you have already committed $100 on the turn.
39/7 x $200 = 1,114. As pot currently has 1,072, its a pretty close call, given the other possible outs and $50 behind.
I know the general consensus is that B&M players are drooling fools, but look at the strength being shown in this hand... if there's not a set here somewhere, I'd be very surprised.
A: Preflop, three people come along for the ride after a raise
B: Flop, it goes raise, REraise as the first two actions, and then we get three callers again?
C: Check, raise, reraise, call, and then a fold? That to me screams top pair no good.
Mark
no way I am folding here for $200 with $1k in the middle.
This isn't the right mindset.
Calling behind is fine, it depends on if it's +ev or not. I did the math earlier, this is a -ev call, so don't make it. The 6.6:1 odds means the if the pot is greater than $1320, you SHOULD be calling, even if behind.
Mark
This is also the wrong mindset. See my reasons above.
Mark
$102 pre-flop
$320 more after the flop = $422
$500 more after the turn = $922.
Now you have to call $100 before the river - that's 9.2:1. I agree with DrTy above about the apparent strength of the other players. But on the river you're not playing a pair, you're on a (nut) flush draw. 9 outs out of 46 or 5.1:1. I'd call. Pot is now $1022.
On the flop the most you'd have to add is $50 if you check. If a spade, K or J hits, you're betting for that guy's last $50.
I think your bet on the turn was too low. Your $100 into a $422 pot was giving 5.2:1 to the other players. You're now betting against AJ, trip J's, AA, KK, QQ, QJ, or trip 5's. Or someone else on a (worse) flush draw. But I think AA, KK or QQ would have been played stronger pre-flop, so cancel those. Your probably not up against a possible full house. Had you bet $300 on the turn, you might have got the pot then representing AJ. Your $100 bet said you were on a flush draw, so you got raised.
What was the river? And what did the other guy (with $50 behind) have?
This is it. Your J is no good and your not getting the right price to draw.
What hasn't been stated is that the turn bet was so weird. Its like you are trying to get to showdown for the cheapest price possible. Weird blocker bet. But you have to believe with the action that has happened, that your JK is no good.
You never said what the caller had. You just said that the raiser had JQ.
This is why I don't post early in the morning...I had misread, and thought just 200 to be all in. So...
Yes, 200 would be the call here if this is the case. Max a $250.00 call into a $1122.00 pot.
I don't disagree with the exact math, if that is what it tells you. I personally don't play with any software/tracker/calculator etc. However, if this is the time you decided to take a shot with a hand like that, and it is not done so frequently that you are just spewing chips all the time, then I don't see why you wouldn't follow through with your hand here.
When you play cards like this you are automatically going in knowing that you want to have that flush or straight draw along with your pair hitting unless you hit the miracle of all flops..Sometimes it isn't always about the numbers, especially in a cash game in my opinion.
Again, for me, I am still not folding in this particular circumstance. Have you not ever taken a risk in poker Mark?>:D
~Shar
BUT, justifications throughout this thread is common, NOT right.
Mark
the 5.6:1 is pretty close to 5.4:1 pot odds so I think you shouldn't be discounting a call so fast (don't agree with the 6.6:1 which changes the decision at hand). As stated in a previous post, this isn't a tournament so if you lose you can easily reload. I don't know many players that are going to fold for $200 with two other players practically all-in and drawing to the nut flush for 5 times on their money.
btw, I probably also put the other player all-in for the extra $50 now.
You are a 6.6:1 dog IF either player has a set. I think due to the fact that it's a live game You can't just assume there MUST be a set. 2 pair+ I would say is reasonable, but in a live game I'm most affraid of 34 here.
80% of the time I'd say our J's are good as well as spades. Assuming the best hand here is A5, It's an easy call.
There's a lot we draw well (Ax), a lot we draw slim to (straight/sets/AJ), and even some we dominate (5s6s, QJ, etc.)
combine these and I believe the call is +EV
Personally, I'd much rather check/call or check/fold the turn depending on the action, given that 3 people called your reraise. Either this, or just Ship the turn.