Sexy Position Raise

QuinnerQuinner
in No Limit / Pot Limit Holdem
The turn card definitely helped. Though I think I could have gotten him off what I presume to be second pair.

PokerStars Game #28900884992: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2009/06/02 9:32:29 ET
Table 'Mensa V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Metalex ($7.42 in chips)
Seat 2: jubipesca ($0.78 in chips)
Seat 3: Stanley34 ($5.75 in chips)
Seat 4: Quinner777 ($7.33 in chips)
Seat 5: Pulja100 ($3.93 in chips)
Seat 6: schwed222 ($8.11 in chips)
schwed222: posts small blind $0.02
Metalex: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [5c 5h]
jubipesca: folds
Stanley34: raises $0.15 to $0.20
Quinner777: calls $0.20
Pulja100: folds
schwed222: folds
Metalex: calls $0.15
*** FLOP *** [Kd Js Ad]
Metalex: checks
Stanley34: checks
Quinner777: bets $0.40
Metalex: folds
Stanley34: calls $0.40
*** TURN *** [Kd Js Ad] [Ac]
Stanley34: checks
Quinner777: bets $1
Stanley34: folds
Uncalled bet ($1) returned to Quinner777
Quinner777 collected $1.37 from pot
Quinner777: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.42 | Rake $0.05
Board [Kd Js Ad Ac]
Seat 1: Metalex (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: jubipesca folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Stanley34 folded on the Turn
Seat 4: Quinner777 collected ($1.37)
Seat 5: Pulja100 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: schwed222 (small blind) folded before Flop


There's no way in hell that pf raiser should be checking with this board. For the exact reason that I will pwn you with ATC's. If he c-bets I'm gone obv. This bluff almost feels like taking candy from a baby....

Comments

  • Richard~Richard~
    I can't really see why you're so confident, he could easily be floating you with Q10 or AK. you make it sound like k10 or a weak ace is the only hand he'll take this line with. now given the results you probably pushed him off k10 or QQ, but I still think you should be a bit more worried. it's not even a given double barrel but I guess it's a decent spot to do it in since you have no showdown value :P
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    +1

    You're getting CR'd on that turn bet the same amount of times (if not more) than you actually find a fold.

    breakeven play, at best.

    If the flop is checked, I dont mind firing the turn after villain checks again.
  • screenmanscreenman
    He likely had a small pair say 5s 5d.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Whoa whoa, how is this a bad play? First off why no c-bet? This is the perfect board for it, as its scary and drawy as hell. Even if he has two pair he doesn't want to see a diamond or a Queen or a ten peel off. Checking makes no sense if he hit top pair or better on this board. If there weren't three players in this pot I would be a bit more cautious, but the more players in a pot the more straightforward people tend to play. Checking seems super weak considering the board. I would never expect a c/r from him ever, he was just not that crafty a player. Seriously maybe at the levels you guys play at you have to handle these situations more delicately but I honestly don't see what he check raises me with. If I have a flush draw I'm checking behind, but anything else I'm probably bluffing in position. Why give me the chance? (Just meaning I'm alot less likely to attempt to bluff him if he's shown strength on this kind of board). As played, now he can't know where he's at, and the only way to find out is by putting a ton more money into the pot, when he could already be dominated by say Q10s.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Richard~ wrote: »
    I can't really see why you're so confident, he could easily be floating you with Q10 or AK. you make it sound like k10 or a weak ace is the only hand he'll take this line with. now given the results you probably pushed him off k10 or QQ, but I still think you should be a bit more worried. it's not even a given double barrel but I guess it's a decent spot to do it in since you have no showdown value :P

    If he has Q10 checking is ok, but still letting diamond draws in for free. AK check seems just like a horrible way to play that hand. He doesn't know for sure what I'm going to do, so by checking his AK its possible either me or Metalex have a queen or a ten in our hands so he doesn't want to see either of those cards come off on the turn. I really just don't like slowplaying this board considering there is a few turn cards you really don't want to see out of position.
  • Richard~Richard~
    stupid double post .____.
  • Richard~Richard~
    He needs people to call if he likes money, poker is about making as much money as possible not winning a bunch of hands . If he's gonna be afraid to let a card come off that could potentially be bad for him or see ghosts in every diamond that comes off he's not gonna be making much money...basically ._.

    Besides, c-better drawheavy flops without a real hand isn't really something you wanna do either, people stick around too much. If he c-bets and gets a caller he's not gonna know what the caller is floating him with. I'd almost say that I probably would not c-bet here with queens or k10, I'd probably c/minraise rather, then if the villain called my minraise I'd consider getting it in on the turn oop or taking a stab on the river in position.

    Also a bit of simple math for the flushdraw ^^':
    flop comes two diamonds, you have two opponents, let's pretend one of them has a suited hand which seems reasonable. He has diamonds 25% or even less off the times than that since he can't have the ace of diamonds and that's a fair part of his suited card range. If he has diamonds another diamond comes on the turn 9/48 times, or about 20% if the times. This means that slowplaying a board with two diamonds will have you dead on the turn 0,25 * 0,2 = 5% of the time. Ofc not getting value from the flushdraw is another story...

    I think I lost myself a bit but I don't think this is a good board for him to c-bet light. On a board like this I probably c-bet my acerags or maybe even two pair to protect them (although I still might check if I'm feeling brave, don't know what's optimal here), I don't c-bet to bluff. If I wanna scare people I'll definitely checkraise, hehe ^^'
  • QuinnerQuinner
    That makes sense I like the math, and your post made me realize I'm probably not checking enough to induce bluffs/disguise my true hand strength. Thing is, I can't stand it when I check and a harmless looking card comes off on the turn but really it just made someone's set over my slow played two pair. This might not be such a problem if I was a better player and could avoid getting stacked in these situations, but the reality is that I generally would.
  • Richard~Richard~
    There's really nothing wrong with betting your two pairs or whatnot on a board like that, especially if you're not comfortable with potentially letting a card come off (although you may still want to keep in mind that checking oop works nicely on overly aggressive tables where noone ever lets a card come off without betting).

    I was in a pretty bad mood yesterday when I wrote the post so I'm sorry if it felt like I was just complaining about everything. I think a big point I was trying to make is that this is not a good board for him to cbet light as you seemed to think it was, it's just too easy for you or the other guy in the pot to have hit a piece of it or a draw and float him. I someone sticks around he's gonna have to doublebarrel if he wants to continue bluffing and if he does he has reduced his hand to a prayer that his opponent is drawing
  • StripAndPokerStripAndPoker
    That makes sense
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