Let's talk Omaha!

philliiveyphilliivey
in Pot Limit and No Limit Omaha
1st a good moment

beat: he was "shortstacked"

PokerStars Game #43185896242: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2010/04/25 17:01:30 ET
Table 'Sthenelos VI' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: ando03 ($0.92 in chips)
Seat 4: PHILLIIVEY1 ($2.80 in chips)
Seat 5: Danclark1979 ($0.35 in chips)
Seat 6: boogerdad ($4.95 in chips)
ando03: posts small blind $0.01
PHILLIIVEY1: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PHILLIIVEY1 [9c Jd 7h 9s]
Danclark1979: calls $0.02
boogerdad: folds
ando03: calls $0.01
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
*** FLOP *** [As 9d 9h]
ando03: checks
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
Danclark1979: checks
*** TURN *** [As 9d 9h] [Jh]
ando03: bets $0.04
PHILLIIVEY1: calls $0.04
Danclark1979: calls $0.04
*** RIVER *** [As 9d 9h Jh] [7s]
ando03: checks
PHILLIIVEY1: bets $0.10
Danclark1979: raises $0.10 to $0.20
ando03: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: raises $0.42 to $0.62
Danclark1979: calls $0.09 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.33) returned to PHILLIIVEY1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PHILLIIVEY1: shows [9c Jd 7h 9s] (four of a kind, Nines)
Danclark1979: shows [Qd 4c 8d Tc] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
PHILLIIVEY1 collected $0.76 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.76 | Rake $0
Board [As 9d 9h Jh 7s]
Seat 1: ando03 (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 4: PHILLIIVEY1 (big blind) showed [9c Jd 7h 9s] and won ($0.76) with four of a kind, Nines
Seat 5: Danclark1979 showed [Qd 4c 8d Tc] and lost with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 6: boogerdad (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)





now onto strategy, What are people's thoughts on this hand, I should have just bet out on flop then checking I guess, but anything different I could have done? I was up on this table but as you see lose it all :(, was doing o.k. in Omaha today before this.

I am a rookie in this game,lol so I don't know what lines I should be taking.

Notice it is same opponent as 1st hand

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #43187579479: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2010/04/25 17:33:10 ET
Table 'Sthenelos VI' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: sioque1 ($2.51 in chips)
Seat 2: oyobaf ($1.96 in chips)
Seat 3: KEN1021 ($0.51 in chips)
Seat 4: PHILLIIVEY1 ($3.01 in chips)
Seat 5: Danclark1979 ($3.04 in chips)
Seat 6: DILEO1217 ($4.31 in chips)
DILEO1217: posts small blind $0.01
sioque1: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to PHILLIIVEY1 [As Ac Jc Ks]
oyobaf: folds
KEN1021: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: raises $0.04 to $0.06
Danclark1979: raises $0.15 to $0.21
DILEO1217: folds
sioque1: folds
PHILLIIVEY1: raises $0.31 to $0.52
Danclark1979: calls $0.31
*** FLOP *** [9h Td Js]
PHILLIIVEY1: checks
Danclark1979: bets $1.02
PHILLIIVEY1: raises $1.47 to $2.49 and is all-in
Danclark1979: calls $1.47
*** TURN *** [9h Td Js] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [9h Td Js Kh] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PHILLIIVEY1: shows [As Ac Jc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Danclark1979: shows [Ah Qs 6c 8d] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Danclark1979 collected $5.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.05 | Rake $0.30
Board [9h Td Js Kh 8s]
Seat 1: sioque1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: oyobaf folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: KEN1021 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: PHILLIIVEY1 showed [As Ac Jc Ks] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 5: Danclark1979 (button) showed [Ah Qs 6c 8d] and won ($5.75) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 6: DILEO1217 (small blind) folded before Flop

Comments

  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Tricky hand the 2nd one because of the size of the pot built pre-flop.

    On that flop, when you check and get bet at, I think you've two options:

    A: Re-pop all in and go broke / hope to catch better

    B: Fold to his bet and grumble about variance.

    The only reason I don't include calling is because bottom line is, you're pot committed by a call. His bet is $1.02, you're not going to call that and leave yourself with $1.42 back or whatever. Folding hurts, but you only have one overpair, with a gutshot redraw, and a few runner-runners...

    Mark
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    DrTyore wrote: »
    Tricky hand the 2nd one because of the size of the pot built pre-flop.

    On that flop, when you check and get bet at, I think you've two options:

    A: Re-pop all in and go broke / hope to catch better

    B: Fold to his bet and grumble about variance.

    The only reason I don't include calling is because bottom line is, you're pot committed by a call. His bet is $1.02, you're not going to call that and leave yourself with $1.42 back or whatever. Folding hurts, but you only have one overpair, with a gutshot redraw, and a few runner-runners...

    Mark



    ah o.k., ya I did not want to just call the $1.02 for the reason you mentioned, so at least on the right track there, he only bet's small when he has something so I knew he really did not have anything cause of that big bet on flop, I should try and find out what the equity was when the money went in.
  • SuitedPairSuitedPair
    I'm a newby as well.

    Looking at all the straights coming out of that board I wouldn't be getting it all in there. Aces pre in PLO are not nearly as strong as in Holdem. In this case you also beat your aces :)

    With all the straights out there my instinct is to throw it away on the flop bet but now the trick is to learn if the math of PLO backs that up.

    Strong play though with the re-raise. You do also find a good deal of bluffing at low stakes PLO that doesn't seem to happen quite so often in HM.

    Ah, penny stakes now, Durrrr and Patrik better watch their backs....
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    SuitedPair wrote: »
    I'm a newby as well.

    Looking at all the straights coming out of that board I wouldn't be getting it all in there. Aces pre in PLO are not nearly as strong as in Holdem. In this case you also beat your aces :)

    With all the straights out there my instinct is to throw it away on the flop bet but now the trick is to learn if the math of PLO backs that up.

    Strong play though with the re-raise. You do also find a good deal of bluffing at low stakes PLO that doesn't seem to happen quite so often in HM.

    Ah, penny stakes now, Durrrr and Patrik better watch their backs....


    Yup, know the odds there now, Blondefish would have a heart attack if he saw I put all the money in like a 20-30% chance:D.

    I just started off with $1.00, so most of that was winnings.:)
  • schabsschabs
    Tricky flop, quite dangerous I have been known to lay down on the flop. I might throw out a bet here first then re-evaluate if he raises, flat calls etc.
  • bigmark4455bigmark4455
    I play a lot of Omaha on FT and this is a common mistake you'll see.

    Often on a draw heavy board like 9 10 J someone has flopped good.
    You have to be prepared to pitch the AA and top pair on the board when you've been re-raised. which typically means buddy has flopped a set. (which he has re-draws to hit full houses that will easily beat your top and over pair.) OR he's flopped the straight.

    I think your real error is the extra raise you put in pre flop after DanClark re-raised you.
    Your best play in that spot (You were out of position with DanClark acting after you) is to just flat call the re-raiser out of position.

    It helps manage pot size and makes a fold on the flop in that situation easier.

    Also, get that pot committed shit out of your head. If you can't beat a set on a flop like that. And lead into a re-raiser (which you did unfortunately) you're probably in trouble. It helps in that spot to just pass control to him and then keep the pot smaller.

    Pot limit Omaha is a real pot size management game. Because it's so draw heavy you have to remember that your hand is only as strong as how hard you hit the flop.
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    I will prob focus more on Omaha since It is still the biggest profit maker this week, I have been dabbling in 7 card stud and razz as well, but may go back to hold em to grind out some money and Omaha on the side.
  • bigmark4455bigmark4455
    The variance is higher in Omaha. Once you learn to play razz well you'll find that there is a ton of fish. Good luck.
  • syphilaidssyphilaids
    RAZZ is sweet, learn to play that.
    Things I hate about razz:
    Hands are generally obvious. If I have an A showing and villian has a K he's folding 99% of the time.
    Fish don't understand this fact. I lost a big tourny cause villian called down with 99T6 showing when I had A346 showing (I went double pair brick). Genearlly though this is a huge payout.
    The variance sucks. Nothing like having A23, pairing twice, and having a guy showing 789 bet at you.

    Things I love about RAZZ:
    Easy to learn. It's very mathematical, everyone can see yoru cards and vice versa. Once you understand odds its game on. There is very little manuvering one can do in Razz.
    You know when someone sucks out on you.

    If you're going to pick this up I'll send you the ten commandments of razz, created by Dr. Razz (cardrunners). It's a great guideline.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    bigmark4455 wrote: »
    I play a lot of Omaha on FT and this is a common mistake you'll see.

    Often on a draw heavy board like 9 10 J someone has flopped good.
    You have to be prepared to pitch the AA and top pair on the board when you've been re-raised. which typically means buddy has flopped a set. (which he has re-draws to hit full houses that will easily beat your top and over pair.) OR he's flopped the straight.

    I think your real error is the extra raise you put in pre flop after DanClark re-raised you.
    Your best play in that spot (You were out of position with DanClark acting after you) is to just flat call the re-raiser out of position.

    It helps manage pot size and makes a fold on the flop in that situation easier.

    Also, get that pot committed shit out of your head. If you can't beat a set on a flop like that. And lead into a re-raiser (which you did unfortunately) you're probably in trouble. It helps in that spot to just pass control to him and then keep the pot smaller.

    Pot limit Omaha is a real pot size management game. Because it's so draw heavy you have to remember that your hand is only as strong as how hard you hit the flop.

    great post.....100% agree
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