I am still new at this game...

SharantyrSharantyr
in Pot Limit and No Limit Omaha
So, I have been dabbling a bit in the PLO game. I do ok but am still quite green.

I am wondering what you would do here. We are about 30 out of the money. Avg stack is about 15k. Had recently moved tables. This should almost be automatic imo.



PokerStars Game #60501935196: Tournament #381163206, $3.00+$0.30 USD Omaha Pot Limit - Level XII (150/300) - 2011/04/08 1:43:23 ET
Table '381163206 8' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: mattskitty (5705 in chips)
Seat 2: mikeybeee (15132 in chips)
Seat 3: Sharantyr (9074 in chips)
Seat 4: holatyaboy (16260 in chips)
Seat 5: OUT7OUT (4900 in chips)
Seat 6: shig3 (10720 in chips)
Seat 7: Gstauf5420 (15529 in chips)
Seat 8: sarkay14 (31768 in chips)
Seat 9: bignosex22 (7230 in chips)
Sharantyr: posts small blind 150
holatyaboy: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sharantyr [7c 8d 9s Ad]
OUT7OUT: folds
shig3: folds
Gstauf5420: calls 300
sarkay14: folds
bignosex22 has timed out
bignosex22: folds
bignosex22 is sitting out
bignosex22 has returned
mattskitty: folds
mikeybeee: folds
Sharantyr: calls 150
holatyaboy: checks
*** FLOP *** [3d Jc Td]
Sharantyr: checks
bignosex22 said, "zzzzzzzzzzzz n it nigga"
holatyaboy: bets 900
Gstauf5420: raises 2700 to 3600
Sharantyr:

Comments

  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    Assuming Original Bettor (V1) will fold to your 3bet shove, you're flipping against the assumed set of Original Raiser (V2)....something like 45/55 dog.

    If V1 calls as well with maybe top end wrap, your hand drops in value to 33% chance of winning, albeit, huge pot.

    I would probably fold here with no info on villains. Only exception would be to an uber aggressive player who might do it with over pair or worse. In PLO, always assume the worst if you're unsure.

    If you get it in here, it looks like you're at best 45% to win pot.........not the spots we're looking for.
  • SharantyrSharantyr
    Thank you for that assessment T8.

    I know that I have much to learn about this game.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Sharantyr wrote: »
    bignosex22 said, "zzzzzzzzzzzz n it nigga"

    wut.
  • ReefAquariumReefAquarium
    I'm new to PLO as well.

    With 5400 or so in the pot and starting with 9074.
    She has a 9 nut flush plus 6 more straight outs =15 outs twice.

    If she is a 45% dog can't she get it in if she can count on a bit a fold equity here?

    I would shove here.

    But I'm far from an expert at PLO.

    Is there a pokerstove for omaha?
  • moosemoose
    Problem is that only 2 outs are to the nut straight. Everything else makes a higher straight. So she essentially has the flush draw with no redraws to a higher nuts.
  • BuyinBankBuyinBank
    My first gut instinct was shove, though I'm far from a PLO expert.

    After running the numbers, if Mr. 3600 calls a shove and Mr. 900 folds, you're basically putting 45% of the total pot into the middle on the flop with aorund 45% equity (11 outs to the nuts vs no blockers).

    Against his range you will occasionally be slightly better or slightly worse, but it seems to be a fairly EV neutral situation based on the cards alone.

    Factor in fold equity and the fact that you're stack size is only 60% of average at the moment and I'm starting to lean towards shoving again.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    moose wrote: »
    Problem is that only 2 outs are to the nut straight. Everything else makes a higher straight. So she essentially has the flush draw with no redraws to a higher nuts.


    this, if you have the high straight wrap with nut flush = get it in quickly

    it wouldn't be horrible to get it in, but at this level of PLO, there are definately alot better spots that can be had.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    BuyinBank wrote: »
    Factor in fold equity and the fact that you're stack size is only 60% of average at the moment and I'm starting to lean towards shoving again.

    History tells me in PLO, V2 is folding <1%, V1 maybe >80%

    So it looks like you're going to be in a virtual flip....why flip when you don't have to. Only have 1 BB invested, and V2 is never folding = ez laydown for me.

    Now, if we lead out instead of checking, this may change everything....but as played, fold.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    ReefAquarium wrote: »
    Is there a pokerstove for omaha?


    Not sure...would be curious to see those numbers
  • SharantyrSharantyr
    I really appreciate the opinions and feedback, and patience as I may ask what seem as silly questions.

    Learning the best way to think and play regardless of level is important. However, so far in my experience in these, many of the players think top pair or even an over pair (however unlikely since it is an unraised pot) here is good. My draws, even given the fact that the straight would not be to the nut straight, look really good compared to what I have seen people push around and win with.

    Does how you weigh your considerations change much since it is a limped in pot with 2 of the 3 players being in the blinds?

    *I just found this but not quite sure what I need to do. Gotta look at it closer.

    http://www.reviewpokerrooms.com/poker-games/omaha-high/odds-calculator.html
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    You have less flush outs as well...

    Everyone pointing out the non-nut draw to the straight is correct, you need to his only the 7 to make the best straight. So only 2 outs there (one is a flush out I'll be counting in a second).

    As for the last diamond, you can't count all 9, you only have 8 here, as the Jd makes a paired board, and with this kind of action in front, top two pair is minimum you're against, more likely a set. Then, on the turn, you're looking at 7 outs if you didn't hit yet.

    In this case, I fold.

    Mark
  • HobbesHobbes
    If your not drawing to the nuts someone else is. ;)

    You will lose a shit load of money (take it from me) with underboats and not nut flushes/straights.
  • T8urmoneyT8urmoney
    Sharantyr wrote: »
    However, so far in my experience in these, many of the players think top pair or even an over pair (however unlikely since it is an unraised pot) here is good. My draws, even given the fact that the straight would not be to the nut straight, look really good compared to what I have seen people push around and win with.

    Does how you weigh your considerations change much since it is a limped in pot with 2 of the 3 players being in the blinds?

    *I just found this but not quite sure what I need to do. Gotta look at it closer.

    Omaha High Poker Odds Calculator

    This confirms my odds pretty much.....ur flipping 2 handed against a set. If a 3rd guy gets in there with a bigger straight wrap, you're down to 25-35%, depending if it's a 3 or 4 card wrap.

    Again, I do use reads and history (HUDS). If I've seen a guy play AAxx this way before....then you may reconsider.

    fyi; my small sample of your play indicates uber tightness, you may want to open it up a little, especially late in a tourney.
  • moosemoose
    DrTyore wrote: »
    You have less flush outs as well...

    As for the last diamond, you can't count all 9, you only have 8 here, as the Jd makes a paired board, and with this kind of action in front, top two pair is minimum you're against, more likely a set. Then, on the turn, you're looking at 7 outs if you didn't hit yet.

    In this case, I fold.

    Mark

    Another good point.
  • MiloMilo
    moose wrote: »
    Problem is that only 2 outs are to the nut straight. Everything else makes a higher straight. So she essentially has the flush draw with no redraws to a higher nuts.

    This.

    Your only nut hand is the flush.

    You have the wrong end of the straight draw, and no set to allow for a full house.

    I am no more experienced than you, but I would say fold.
  • getem76getem76
    your still 25+ blinds deep after this han, its an easy fold, you will find a better spot to get it in than this, your range is crushed by something like KQJ10 (2 diamonds) holding outs, thats just one hand your against, another is also JJQ9 or something like that...not insulting your hand in anyway, with the action around you and your position, hope for the better spot, people being this deep stacked and the blinds, limping with big hands in PLO non AA or course would be standard for the average tight player.....you should have gave it up, waited for that set to flop so you can get it in there!

    you also might not be against either of these holdings, but with the action they have probably better hands than you and or crossing your outs
  • SharantyrSharantyr
    Thank you again for all the input gentlemen. I appreciate the serious nature in which you are all offering your constructive critisisms. I look forward to doing better than just making it, and growing to having a better understanding of this game as it is growing on me more each time I play ( so far only about 18 games I have tried).

    @ T8: In regards to my uber tightness as you pointed out, I am 100% positive that there are many hands I have folded so far that others with more experience may play. I find that I am watching more right now than really playing, and will try to open up my play more as it will also help me learn more as I go, even if by trial and error.

    One thing I definately was not thinking about when counting possible outs was what Mark pointed out in regards to the Jd. When looking at the omaha calculator is that a card you would put in the "dead" cards spot for the odds calculation?


    **On a completely seperate note....Claims Adjuster appt went well....only $3500.00 in damages to my Truck. Still cant believe the deer kept running....probably not far though. Gonna take the work order to the dealership today so they can get a head start on ordering parts :)
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