A Blind Schedule for Consideration
The next Bristol Street is coming tomorrow and the game with 32 players seemed to go well so I've been thinking about upping the limit to that, permanently
The big issue I'm finding at the moment is the time at which the tournament ends. It's been creeping later and later, and I'd like to reduce the time with out completely killing the action. (ie. I'd hate to turn this into a big all-in fest, which happens as play has gotten tighter and tighter over the last year)
So, I'm considering adding antes to the game. I hoping that this improves the game two ways (I'd like like to hear comments both in agreement and not in agreement)
- It forces the very small stacks into action; they can no longer sit and wait for big hands (i.e they get X compeltely free hands each rotation).
- It gives more room to play for everyone else. Since the goal is to remove a certain amount per player from the tables, we can reduce the BB and add antes, keeping the same money flowing off the table.
This does run the risk of extending the tournament out, but I think it'd be a fun experiment to try, just to see what happens. To make the format a little easier on me, the plan is to up the buy-in to 2,500 chips, and eliminate the red (5)'s from play. To keep the play the same, I need to mulitply my original blind schedule by 2.5, which actually almost fits perfectly into a standard (25) minimum chip schedule...
1. 25/50
2. 50/100
3. 75/150
4. 100/200
10 min. break (no colour up)
5. 100/200 (25)
6. 150/300 (50)
7. 200/400 (50)
8. 300/600 (75)
20 min break (colour up to 100)
9. 400/800 (100)
10. 600/1200 (200)
11. 800/1600 (200)
12. 1000/2000 (300)
(break colour up to 500)
13. 1500/3000 (500)
14. 2000/4000 (500)
15. 3000/6000 (1000) *capped*
With 2500 chips and 2 possible re-buys, I'd estimate roughly 160,000 chips in play by the end of the tourmanet. My main concern is that this will give us too much action for the last few players and we'll see the initial elimination speed up, but the latter ones will take a long time.
There will also be a lot of chips in play, but I think we can colour up as we go.
Let me know what you think.
Rob.
The big issue I'm finding at the moment is the time at which the tournament ends. It's been creeping later and later, and I'd like to reduce the time with out completely killing the action. (ie. I'd hate to turn this into a big all-in fest, which happens as play has gotten tighter and tighter over the last year)
So, I'm considering adding antes to the game. I hoping that this improves the game two ways (I'd like like to hear comments both in agreement and not in agreement)
- It forces the very small stacks into action; they can no longer sit and wait for big hands (i.e they get X compeltely free hands each rotation).
- It gives more room to play for everyone else. Since the goal is to remove a certain amount per player from the tables, we can reduce the BB and add antes, keeping the same money flowing off the table.
This does run the risk of extending the tournament out, but I think it'd be a fun experiment to try, just to see what happens. To make the format a little easier on me, the plan is to up the buy-in to 2,500 chips, and eliminate the red (5)'s from play. To keep the play the same, I need to mulitply my original blind schedule by 2.5, which actually almost fits perfectly into a standard (25) minimum chip schedule...
1. 25/50
2. 50/100
3. 75/150
4. 100/200
10 min. break (no colour up)
5. 100/200 (25)
6. 150/300 (50)
7. 200/400 (50)
8. 300/600 (75)
20 min break (colour up to 100)
9. 400/800 (100)
10. 600/1200 (200)
11. 800/1600 (200)
12. 1000/2000 (300)
(break colour up to 500)
13. 1500/3000 (500)
14. 2000/4000 (500)
15. 3000/6000 (1000) *capped*
With 2500 chips and 2 possible re-buys, I'd estimate roughly 160,000 chips in play by the end of the tourmanet. My main concern is that this will give us too much action for the last few players and we'll see the initial elimination speed up, but the latter ones will take a long time.
There will also be a lot of chips in play, but I think we can colour up as we go.
Let me know what you think.
Rob.
Comments
/g2
Specifically, the first 4 levels currently work out to 50BB, 33, 25, 16 (with starting chips of 1000), while the new schedule (2500 chips) is 50BB, 25, 16, 12 - the equivalent of removing the second level. Â At the other end, currently level 13 (usually "final table") has blinds of 600/1200, costing 1800 per lap, which works out to 4500 per lap in new schedule (x 2.5). Â However, the new level 13 has blinds of 1000/2000 (200), which means it would actually cost 4200 per lap (8 players), which is "slower" than the existing schedule.
I'd certainly be willing to try the new schedule out (even tomorrow), but after looking at it I think it will have the reverse effect of what's intended.
Perhaps the later rounds the levels go up as players are eliminated. Starting at the Final table.
This would take away the grinding play that seems to evolve in the 12 down to final 2.
At 4 levels you are are close to 10% chip stack for blinds, which will force action, it also brings about alot more luck vs skill. However the antes will increase the pot making plays and aggresiveness, so that solid players also have an opportunity to play at pots witrh better rewards.
I like it....
1. 50 v. 50
2. 25 v. 33
3. 17 v. 25
4. 12 v. 16
5. 12 v. 10
6. 8 v. 7
7. 6 v. 5
8. 4 v. 3
9. 3 v. 2
10. 2 v. 2
So, in reality, I think Trevor's analysis is pretty right on. This isn't going to make much of a difference to the time.
I think I'll play with it some more and try to come up with something for BSC XIX
1. I think that you should go back to one rebuy, instead of 2.
2.. Don't let anybody else 'buy-in' after someone else has busted out, and doesn't want to re-buy.
With 32 spots to play, there shouldn't be that many people left on the waiting list
I know both ideas take money out of the winners pockets, but I think most people would rather take a little less cash in winnings, and get to bed at a decent hour.
Basically, it boils down to time vs money!!
Rob, I would be willing to give the ante idea a shot, it worked well for the 7 Card Stud Tournament!
JohnnieH
I believe when it comes to the math behind the blind schedule, you have a better understanding than me; however I would like to comment the use of antes.
I believe antes are a big part of the game and force players to play every hand. Â This is especially true when it comes to getting to a final table or getting into the money. Â It takes the skill of a player to the next level.
Prophet 22
I would combine 9 & 10 making it 500/1000 and make the next level 700/1500
I'm ordering some new chips for tourneys....
green 25 - 250
black 100 - 300
purple 500 - 300
yellow 1000 - 200
blue 5000 - 50
this is enough for 30 players
I'm going to this blind schedule for tourneys
20 min levels
25/50
50/100
75/150
-- break
100/200
150/300
200/400
-- break -- color up green
300/600
500/1000
700/1500
-- break -- color up black
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
3000/6000 (if needed keep going 4000/8000, 5000/10000)
I'm gonna start everyone with 5000 for freezeouts.... 8 green, 8 black, 8 puple
for big events give everone 5 yellow too and start with 10000, use 30 min levels.... then color up the purple after 2000/4000
A good estimator for players left at any point is the total chips in play divided by 20xBB
I can understand the issue with blinds and time issues. I ordered a machine called the poker genie, which could help with your estimations. This machine takes the number of players, the number of chips and your blind structure and gives you an approximate ending time. From the reviews I have read, people say the times are almost dead on. I will bring it out as soon as it arrives if you want to give it a test drive. Until then good luck with everthing.
Jeremy
2BULLETS
- Jay
I'm guestimating that the number of chips in play will be rougly 160,000. The 20-30BB rules gives us an end point of 5000-8000. This means my tournament will never end tonight. Crap.
I'll guess that the 2000-4000(500) or the one after 3000-6000(1000) will be the end.
I've tweaked the schedule a little bit, as I did some digging and found that an ante of 1/3 the SB is common (I assumed the min was 1/4 the BB)
That said, I remember in conversation that you mentioned that things have started feeling a bit tighter, and you were starting to think of using 10-20BB's for your calculations. Any updates or observations?
The big slow point I find is down to three players. Everyone is reluctant to make the big move due to the jump in prize money from 3rd to 2nd. Everyone tightens up, but the funny part I see is that the player that loosens his/her game is often the one that walks away with the win. (ie. If you're playing for second, you'll get second.)
A good example is Flint Bones's win a couple tournaments ago. At three players he completely loosened up and none of the other two players would play back at him. He stole 8 hands of blinds before someone challenged him and ended up winning the whole thing.
At the very least, it will be interesting to see what affect, good or bad, antes have on the game.
I'll chime in, in a bit with my thoughts.
Unfortunately, while it was fun to play, I'm not sure how successful the "end it earlier" experiment was, since I'm not sure what the target time is. We dropped from 4 players to game over in 2 hands, which is a little abnormal. With 3 players seeming to be a fairly lengthy point in the game, I would guess the game would have gone another 1/2 hour, to about 12:45. While that is a lot earlier than the last few, it's still creeping up there. But if you just want to end it before 1, it's great.
Overall, it was a bit more challenging (in a good way) and a whole lot of fun. I'd love to play with antes again, and I liked the schedule.
Also the other benefit is that people realized that they had to mary thier hand till the end if the called the flop. If you called the flop you were pretty much commited to putting your whole stack in.
Although, I don't know if it accomplished anything on the time shortening, but I do like the play later.
.