Is this shove ok?

QuinnerQuinner
in STT Strategy
Was this bad?

PokerStars Game #27835106226: Tournament #161103594, $3.00+$0.40 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2009/05/05 1:48:39 ET
Table '161103594 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: JoeNutz77 (2170 in chips)
Seat 2: Quinner777 (1555 in chips)
Seat 3: Barbiiexx (1895 in chips)
Seat 4: kev20001 (2395 in chips)
Seat 5: claudioxcore (1490 in chips)
Seat 7: mikelava (2125 in chips)
Seat 8: Rex Tungsten (1870 in chips)
JoeNutz77: posts the ante 25
Quinner777: posts the ante 25
Barbiiexx: posts the ante 25
kev20001: posts the ante 25
claudioxcore: posts the ante 25
mikelava: posts the ante 25
Rex Tungsten: posts the ante 25
claudioxcore: posts small blind 100
mikelava: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Quinner777 [5s 5c]
Rex Tungsten: folds
JoeNutz77: folds
Quinner777: raises 1330 to 1530 and is all-in
Barbiiexx: folds
kev20001: calls 1530
claudioxcore: folds
mikelava: folds
*** FLOP *** [As 2c Ah]
*** TURN *** [As 2c Ah] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [As 2c Ah 6s] [Ts]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Quinner777: shows [5s 5c] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
kev20001: shows [Ac 8s] (three of a kind, Aces)
kev20001 collected 3535 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3535 | Rake 0
Board [As 2c Ah 6s Ts]
Seat 1: JoeNutz77 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Quinner777 showed [5s 5c] and lost with two pair, Aces and Fives
Seat 3: Barbiiexx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: kev20001 (button) showed [Ac 8s] and won (3535) with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 5: claudioxcore (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: mikelava (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Rex Tungsten folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Comments

  • GrahamGraham
    I don't really like it because there are too many people left behind you to act. Sure they guy made a retarded call with A8, but he could have sensed that the shove said you had a low pocket pair and didn't really want to play it and since he had you covered he decided he'd take those odds and gamble.

    The proper play there I would assume is either a fold (I hate small pocket pairs), or a call hoping it doesn't get raised and try to set mine. Though, with the blinds at those levels I think that the fold is probably the right play.
  • CerberusCerberus
    Blinds that high and that position I'd fold too. My question is how in blue bloody hell are there 8 people left at that level?! Was every hand folded to the bb all the way there or something equally crazy? Just seems ridiculously tight for a low limit sng.
  • GrahamGraham
    Oh ya, one more thing. Any hand calling you here is either ahead, or a very slight dog. Do you really need to gamble in that spot?
  • GTA PokerGTA Poker
    Graham wrote: »
    I don't really like it because there are too many people left behind you to act. Sure they guy made a retarded call with A8, but he could have sensed that the shove said you had a low pocket pair and didn't really want to play it and since he had you covered he decided he'd take those odds and gamble.

    The proper play there I would assume is either a fold (I hate small pocket pairs), or a call hoping it doesn't get raised and try to set mine. Though, with the blinds at those levels I think that the fold is probably the right play.

    uh...you can't call to set mine with an M of 5 it is shove or fold
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Cerberus wrote: »
    Blinds that high and that position I'd fold too. My question is how in blue bloody hell are there 8 people left at that level?! Was every hand folded to the bb all the way there or something equally crazy? Just seems ridiculously tight for a low limit sng.


    Every once in awhile you get a table full of some decent players, or some really tight players.......or hell maybe everyone was just card dead. The guy that busted me was the biggest weak spot at the table however.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Also question:

    Button or Cutoff proper play Shove (assuming folded to me)?

    Anywhere else...fold?
  • actyperactyper
    I shove here all day long. Calling is an absolute no-no
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    With 7BB it's shove or fold.

    Easy shove.
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Graham wrote: »
    Oh ya, one more thing. Any hand calling you here is either ahead, or a very slight dog. Do you really need to gamble in that spot?

    Yes, imo.

    There is no play left with blinds the way they are. It is gamble time.
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Push and pray they hold
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Quinner wrote: »
    Every once in awhile you get a table full of some decent players, or some really tight players

    Decent players exploit this. They are not part of it.

    (All the more reason to shove here)
  • blackmagiczblackmagicz
    I shove or fold, however I am surprised that A8 calls for basically his tourney life. Unlucky spot.

    A8 should be folding there.
  • cadillaccadillac
    Graham wrote: »
    I don't really like it because there are too many people left behind you to act. Sure they guy made a retarded call with A8, but he could have sensed that the shove said you had a low pocket pair and didn't really want to play it and since he had you covered he decided he'd take those odds and gamble.

    The proper play there I would assume is either a fold (I hate small pocket pairs), or a call hoping it doesn't get raised and try to set mine. Though, with the blinds at those levels I think that the fold is probably the right play.


    This isn't a dream spot but I am not folding here.

    Pros
    - Your EP raise is likely to get a fair amount of respect
    - blinds are coming soon!
    - You may get people to fold 66, 77, 88, 99 or even TT.
    - You add 20% to your stack
    - You flip with any Ax that calls with the added bonus of all that dead money in the pot

    Cons
    - JJ+ will snap call you and you are crushed


    You aren't out playing anyone with these stack sizes anyway. Get aggressive and gobble up those blinds and antes. You don't make money at SNG's by waiting for cards in the end game.
  • QuinnerQuinner
    blackmagicz wrote: »
    I shove or fold, however I am surprised that A8 calls for basically his tourney life. Unlucky spot.

    A8 should be folding there.

    As mentioned before he was definitely the weak spot at the table, just unlucky for me he had to have what was in his mind a "playable" hand.
  • HenjonHenjon
    I play $5-$10 SnG:s. I would estimate perhaps one out of say 15-20 games develops like this with 8 (or sometimes even 9) persons still left on BB-level 200 (assuming a start stack on 1000 chips and first level BB=10) I think this kind of games are difficult from a strategical point of view. Normally you will be on the bubble or semi-bubble (or even ITM), but now it's still almost a full ring game. I can see two strategical paths to walk here:

    1) I play aggresively since I'm not near the bubble and my stack is relatively short. 55 is a decent hand and the fact that still 8 persons are left in the game points to relatively tight players. So I shove. If I get called I'll probably face two overcards, but that's okey in this situation because my hand will hold up more than 50% of the time and then I will be in a VERY good position to come ITM. Calling? No - I don't want to play this kind of hand postflop and I'll be pretty pot commited anyway if I raise 3bb and get a call.

    2) I play tight and wait for other players to lose their patience and start flipping against each other. Pretty soon we might be on the bubble then and I can shove with a better chance of avoiding callers (or pick up a monsterhand, call someone elses shove and double up)

    The problem is I'm not sure which path to prefer... :-)
  • GrahamGraham
    GTA Poker wrote: »
    uh...you can't call to set mine with an M of 5 it is shove or fold

    Thats what I said on my last line ;)
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Henjon wrote: »
    I play $5-$10 SnG:s. I would estimate perhaps one out of say 15-20 games develops like this with 8 (or sometimes even 9) persons still left on BB-level 200 (assuming a start stack on 1000 chips and first level BB=10) I think this kind of games are difficult from a strategical point of view. Normally you will be on the bubble or semi-bubble (or even ITM), but now it's still almost a full ring game. I can see two strategical paths to walk here:

    1) I play aggresively since I'm not near the bubble and my stack is relatively short. 55 is a decent hand and the fact that still 8 persons are left in the game points to relatively tight players. So I shove. If I get called I'll probably face two overcards, but that's okey in this situation because my hand will hold up more than 50% of the time and then I will be in a VERY good position to come ITM. Calling? No - I don't want to play this kind of hand postflop and I'll be pretty pot commited anyway if I raise 3bb and get a call.

    2) I play tight and wait for other players to lose their patience and start flipping against each other. Pretty soon we might be on the bubble then and I can shove with a better chance of avoiding callers (or pick up a monsterhand, call someone elses shove and double up)

    The problem is I'm not sure which path to prefer... :-)

    Wow pretty much word for word what went through my head before I shoved, it's actually probably what got me called because I thought for awhile before shoving so one might guess there was a decent chance they're not up against a monster. At any rate yea, tight table thought it was good for a shove, and also thought I might get called by the donkey and everything happened just as a predicted and I just got a bit unlucky.

    Thanks for the replies everyone.
  • jdAA88jdAA88
    I think this is a standard shove with your stack size.
  • westside8westside8
    Standard shove and cross your fingers.
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Quinner, god bless you.... you're honestly my favorite poster of late for your poker discussions.

    And yes, good push.

    Mark
  • QuinnerQuinner
    Thank me?? Eff that!! Thank YOU guys, I haven't made it into any mega bux yet but my game has improved dramatically in the short time I've been here. My reads are way better, I think I'm putting a ton more pressure onto my opponents and I fixed a good number of dumb mistakes that were costing me money before.

    I think the next step in my game needs to be thinking ahead AND fixing the huge mistakes I still make way too frequently. Some are just embarrassing to post. But I guess since I've mentioned it let me give you an example. (This should give you a good laugh)

    I got QQ in the big blind (25/50), one limper and small blinds fold to me so I popped it up to 200 and limper calls. Flop comes K J 3r I c-bet/probe bet 250.
    Villain calls. Turn is an Ace, check check.

    Here's where I get VERY stupid. River is a meaningless 7. In my head I think I've pretty much polarized his range to either a weak king or ace or a pocket pair that didn't give up on the flop. I'm thinking to myself well he MIGHT have me beat, however I don't think he's strong enough to be able to call a shove on the river seeing as I've shown some fairly decent strength so far.

    So of course I go right ahead and do that thinking "man I'm so sick I can outplay anyone!"

    .....

    Then he snap calls with Q10o for the straight.

    Boom. Bustoville. And I look and feel like the biggest fish you've ever seen.

    So yea. If I could STOP doing that, MIGHT just help the game a little....ok ALOT. I think I'm overthinking some times and just need to play my cards a little more straightforwardly and/or cautiously and/or less STUPIDLY. Yea....definitely less stupidly.
  • DrTyoreDrTyore
    Quick tip...

    You're never going to stop doing that... There are times when you'll work something through in your head, and be so sure that nobody would play something so badly, that that's when they do, and nail you... it happens...

    Mark
  • MidnightMikeMidnightMike
    Shove on the hand.

    Marks right too, you might cut back a bit, but you wont stop doing it. There will always be some jerk out there who calls with such incredible garbage and hits runner runner that some mornings you will still wake up shaking your head over it. Or is that just me. ???
  • QuinnerQuinner
    haha, I sincerely doubt its just you Mike :P
  • STR82ACESTR82ACE
    Quinner wrote: »
    haha, I sincerely doubt its just you Mike :P

    I know Mike...he's right, its just him ;)
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