Calling 3 bets.
More poker theory!
Ok so in the typical 25NL and 50NL games [I'm still not rolled but I take shots
] I typically see alot of players 3betting light, it's pretty obvious to spot whose doing it, as you see them 3bet a fair amount more than they should and they do it in pretty obvious spots. I tend to find someone 3betting out of the blinds alot are generally the ones 3betting the top of the their folding range. Stuff they can't really call with like KJo or AJo, KQo, I've yet to see QJo or A9o, but what the hell throw those in there too. These are hands that are typically -EV calling OOP. Ergo, instead of folding they maximize their chances of winning by 3betting. There's some math shit I could show to how often the opponent has to fold to actually make this profitable and in fact its the correct play against the right opponents. I think this is pretty common knowledge however I could be wrong.
Another play which is often riskier but works again with the right opponents, is to 3bet an UTG raiser. The logic behind this being, say my UTG range is 22+ AQ+, and I raise and my opponent 3bets me in position. In this scenario our hero's folding range is anything between 22-JJ and AQ. So a decent majority are hands that you will fold to a 3bet. This makes 3betting an utg raiser quite profitable a decent majority of the time.
Finally getting to the meat. So if I know that my opponent is raising me lighter than normal, I should be widening my 4 bet range and widening my call range.
My question is how far do I know to widen it, I rarely get to see what my opponents are 3betting me light with, it literally could be anything though I would assume its something suited with at least an ace or a king in it. Not to mention he's holding AA KK QQ a decent amount of time as well.
So yea what hands am I calling his 3bet with and what ones am I re-raising and why.
I wouldn't mind a broad discussion of this topic as theres probably several different 'correct' answers and I'd really like to hear what everyone has to say.
Ok so in the typical 25NL and 50NL games [I'm still not rolled but I take shots
] I typically see alot of players 3betting light, it's pretty obvious to spot whose doing it, as you see them 3bet a fair amount more than they should and they do it in pretty obvious spots. I tend to find someone 3betting out of the blinds alot are generally the ones 3betting the top of the their folding range. Stuff they can't really call with like KJo or AJo, KQo, I've yet to see QJo or A9o, but what the hell throw those in there too. These are hands that are typically -EV calling OOP. Ergo, instead of folding they maximize their chances of winning by 3betting. There's some math shit I could show to how often the opponent has to fold to actually make this profitable and in fact its the correct play against the right opponents. I think this is pretty common knowledge however I could be wrong.Another play which is often riskier but works again with the right opponents, is to 3bet an UTG raiser. The logic behind this being, say my UTG range is 22+ AQ+, and I raise and my opponent 3bets me in position. In this scenario our hero's folding range is anything between 22-JJ and AQ. So a decent majority are hands that you will fold to a 3bet. This makes 3betting an utg raiser quite profitable a decent majority of the time.
Finally getting to the meat. So if I know that my opponent is raising me lighter than normal, I should be widening my 4 bet range and widening my call range.
My question is how far do I know to widen it, I rarely get to see what my opponents are 3betting me light with, it literally could be anything though I would assume its something suited with at least an ace or a king in it. Not to mention he's holding AA KK QQ a decent amount of time as well.
So yea what hands am I calling his 3bet with and what ones am I re-raising and why.
I wouldn't mind a broad discussion of this topic as theres probably several different 'correct' answers and I'd really like to hear what everyone has to say.
Comments
It all comes with experience! You'll learn what works and what doesn't, and hopefully before you go broke! LOL!!
But once again it will narrow down to history of villian (based on HH analysis or histories of villians with similar patterns) and bankroll. I mean if you are going to start making marginal +ev moves you will also have to accept the idea if you are wrong you lose some $$ and also if villian gets lucky you lose $$$.
I think at the end of the day the advantage with online poker is being able to play more tables at a lower level and not really having to think that much about outplaying your opponent at a lower level. Most players are bad anyways and you can easily make a decently hourly wage by just playing solid ABC poker....for the most part.
Obviously as you rise through the ranks you will have to adjust but anything under NL100 I wouldn't worry too much about assigning ranges and relying so much on that info if you are multitabling and have a good bankroll.
I have watched people stack off to me with middle pair, gutshots etc. You will see the same type of plays basically and maybe 1 or 2 players who get out of line or who are actually good. Then you just put a note on them and stay away.
i put 3 bet in my hud because the are important. for guys who never 3 bet there range is generally jj+, good info. for guys who always do it obviously larger, in tournies, to me it means they will call if i shove, so i use aq+ and jj+, ill go a little wider if they 3 bet constantly, but you shouldn't widen your range so much just because they do, stay tight and you'll always burn them.
as for utg raising, maybe you shouldn't really play 22-99 (or maybe like 66), your are supposed to play tight the further from the button you are, but if you do you can't just raise and fold to a re raise, that would be horrible. what this means to you is that if you are going to use this play you have to have a read on your opponent that hes weak that way, because many aren't. if i myself raise from utg and you re raise im generally not folding and usually im shoving (with better cards than you
out of all this though i will point out i think there are many times when the table can't understand why i just stacked off against a guy with a8o. after he put in a re raise and got everyone else to fold.
The game can get crazy with this logic. You'll notice that people fold too much to 3bets and 4bets. These people who do so you can really reraise light. Against those who are playing just like you and notice you reraising all over the place, They might look you up. As a result, you might find yourself shoving preflop with hands like AQ, 99 etc. and praying you hit, just like a tourny. Its pretty sick, but this game and this logic you're going to be flipping a lot.
As far as calling 3bets, I think its ok to do so lightly against loose players. Position is key though. I'll be folding easily dominated hands such as KQ-, AJ-, calling drawing hands such as 67s, 22-88 if there's a chance it'll be multi-way. (occasionally ill throw in Axs where x is 5- so i have some straight potential) , i'll 4bet hands like 99+, AQs+. Thats basically my play, but I play pretty loose.
I think you pretty much have it all down. Not going to call many 3-bets OOP. If 3-bet comes from SB or BB. See how often they defend their blinds. I still wouldn't call with KJo or KQo. But to the defenders, I might call KQs, AQ, AK and any pocket pair depending on the stacks. Also, if the stacks are deep, I'd even call suited connectors on aggressive players.
But yeah, can't give definite answers. Just things to think about.
Ok, so when adn how often do/ would you COLD 4bet 2 players?