Huge hand at Rama

Playing 1/2 at Rama today and have approximately $360 in front. One other big stack has just over $400 and to my left UTG. UTG has been fairly aggressive in pots and will open limp regularly with any pocket pair, 10's or better he would raise A 10+ o would be a raise as well there as well.

The big stack limped in UTG and 6 other limpers I'm in the BB with A7 h and checked and we see the hand 8 handed.

Flop is 10h 9h 8s and I lead out $10.... UTG min raises me to $20, everyone folds to the button who makes it $55. Action to me and I make it $100 as the button has about another 80 in front of him and I want to try and isolate him. UTG tanks for what seems like 5 minutes and then shoves. Button calls ..... what is my play. Button has been draining chips but it is possible that he has anything top pair good kicker, top pair and straight draw etc.

What is my move. Pot is approximately $530 and it is almost $248 to me all in.
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Comments

  • Knowing what a tight and conservative player you are, I am guessing you snap folded . . .
  • LOL I didn't snap anything....... I thought about it and did what I thought I had the odds to do..... I want someone elses analysis of this situation. I have been playing a fair bit at Rama (3-4 days a week) as I really want to see what my results are playing a lot.
  • You are in a situation with a monster hand....sd/fd....if you are raising the flop you are never folding to a shove.

    If you want to take a more passive line you should be flatting the 55 and calling the all in of 80 to stop the action.

    Either way getting your money in with this hand on this flop is a no brainer....you don't need to tank here. A lot of 2 pairs and 1 pair with a draw hands also show up here so you can win with your Ace/straight/flush.
  • instead of your raise to $100, you should have just got it in, the button is isolatedthnen the way you wanted, the UTG probably folds instead...unless your going for the mass equity of it, its too late to fold now, not saying your committed but its close enough to shove with all your outs
  • Isolate? WTF? You have no hand and are drawing to the nuts and a straight draw to back you up, although not a good one. The raise is good but thinking you are doing it to isolate is wrong. You are in this to win as much as possible, not lose the least if your draw misses. You want to build the pot to the point where it is impossible for you or your opponent to fold.

    2:1 on your money, probably 12 good outs, maybe 15. Come on. Mission accomplished.
  • AcidJoe wrote: »
    Playing 1/2 at Rama today and have approximately $360 in front. One other big stack has just over $400 and to my left UTG. UTG has been fairly aggressive in pots and will open limp regularly with any pocket pair, 10's or better he would raise A 10+ o would be a raise as well there as well.

    The big stack limped in UTG and 6 other limpers I'm in the BB with A7 h and checked and we see the hand 8 handed.

    Flop is 10h 9h 8s and I lead out $10.... UTG min raises me to $20, everyone folds to the button who makes it $55. Action to me and I make it $100 as the button has about another 80 in front of him and I want to try and isolate him. UTG tanks for what seems like 5 minutes and then shoves. Button calls ..... what is my play. Button has been draining chips but it is possible that he has anything top pair good kicker, top pair and straight draw etc.

    What is my move. Pot is approximately $530 and it is almost $248 to me all in.

    pot odds say yes call... wtf these live players lolol
  • That's a pretty obvious call IMO.
    you have tons of live outs, and an ace might even be an out, since it was a limp pot, somebody might already have the made straight, but I'd still definitely be calling.
  • [ ] huge hand
  • It's unlikely your straight outs are good. Certainly you need to discount them and the ace severely. Call.
  • Maybe drawing dead... >:D>:D>:D
  • ReeferCash wrote: »
    Maybe drawing dead... >:D>:D>:D

    not possible lol
  • ReeferCash wrote: »
    Maybe drawing dead... >:D>:D>:D

    sick read
  • It's a fairly easy call now, getting 2:1 w/ NFD, but you made the critical error of going broke in an unraised pot and the also critical mistake of overcounting your outs. This hand is not KQhh on JhTh2s board. It's more like 6s5h on the 4h3h2h flop. Not that bad of course, but you could easily be drawing dead on the straight outs so they have to be discounted. If you brick the turn button is probably going to blow you off your hand and if you hit an ace or a straight you will often be in a reverse implied odds spot. Therefor like at the flop situation as calling $45 to win $55 + $20 + $10 + $12 or $97. Getting two to one to see the turn w/ no solid plan for what to do on straight cards this is probably just a fold. An esoteric point about this hand - you do not mind not closing the action, because of the initial minraiser has a straight as well you can just take them both all in for a nice +EV spot w/ lots of gamble that will be great for your image. And even if he has the set well it's not that terrible. Then you have to consider maybe I can get paid off w/ my flush vs his straight. So if you can win an additional $150 when the flush hits, you might want to call. Also the BB might call, meaning you are calling $45 to win $127 instead (3:1) and only need to win $90 when the flush hits. But I would just fold personally but I definitely agree with your decision to bet the flop. Also you are a nice favourite vs two sets but that must be pretty unlikely.

    board: Ts8h9h
    Hand Equity Wins Ties
    Ah7h 25.84% 232 4
    TcTd 35.47% 319 4
    QdJc 38.69% 348 4

    board: Ts8h9h
    Hand Equity Wins Ties
    Ah7h 34.07% 307 2
    QhJd 33.02% 1 595
    QdJc 32.91% 0 595

    Ah7h 42.19% 372 27
    TcTd 52.27% 463 27
    8c8d 5.54% 41 27
  • Reiterating some sentiments here.

    Isolating when you don't have a made hand does not make sense, cause if you hit your nut flush, you want everyone to be in there and contribute to the pot.

    I would agree with Meistro that going broke in a limped pot seems silly.

    I think there were several mistakes in this hand and I would have played it differently. The flop is so textured and hits the ranges of a 8 player limp pot pretty hard. The way I see it, there is no fold equity and the only chance of you winning this pot is to hit the flush. You really want to see the turn and river for cheap. I would check-call down this hand and control the pot. This may even give you the opportunity to get out of the hand if there is a big re-raise following the action. The draw probably isn't very good if someone has a the set, made straight.

    The way you played it, it is an easy call. Have a lot of equity in the pot. Only way it kind of sucks is the scenario where there is a set and other has a flush draw killing your outs and the redraw to the boat.
  • edit -- I didnt read the hand situation correctly -- I dont have a fricking clue - Call maybe
  • What's your move here?

    2/5 in BB with J10s, two callers and you decide to call. SB (who is short stack w about $140 left) raises to $20, the rest of us call.

    Flop 9sQs7h

    SB shoves for remaining $120, next player folds and villian makes it $250. You have about $580 left and villian has you covered. Villian has been playing pretty aggressively and calling down light. Not afraid to mix it up. To me it seemed like an isolation raise as short stack seemed ready to shove on any flop.

    btw - this is a home game and you are allowed to run a side pot more than once. In case this has any bearing on your decision?
  • push AINEC

    Mark
  • DrTyore wrote: »
    push AINEC

    Mark
    ??

    All in easy call?
  • ??

    All in easy call?

    Three ways, pot is 80 preflop, 200 on the short stack push, the reraise makes it $450 and it's our decision, we have $580 here, and a call drops us to 330 when the pot will be 700, what are we going to do, fold the turn?

    We have 14-15 outs depending on a set being out there. We have a tremendously large chance to win this pot. Push it, we want the call.

    Mark
  • Well my thoughts are simple, it's push or fold, sure can't call for almost 1/2 your stack, because if you miss turn, he pushes and what do you do? While it may be an isolation raise, you have only 6 clean outs, the 3 non spade K's and the 3 non spade 8's... Your flush draw might be good but do you really want to count on it? Could he be pushing his higher flush draw? You only have 4BB's invested, do you want to flip for stacks? I likely groan and fold unless I have a real good read that this guy would do this with top pair. Even then you are only about 50/50. Straight flush draws look so pretty though..
  • lol, well I see Mark and I are on polar opposites... We'll see what others say..
  • Folding in this situation would be a rock to the extreme.

    Given the worst case scenario, (SB has pocket queens, and Villain has K8s) our equity when our shove is called by Villain is $417.42

    Yes, this is bad - but this is also the worst case scenario. In the OP he said that he thought that the SB was going to shove with anything, and Villain was trying to isolate - this means that they have a lot more hands in their range than the worst case scenario.

    Even in the (still unlikely) case that the small blinds has aces (with an ace of spades) and Villain has Queens we have an equity of $562.93 - which is pretty close to our $580 that we have left.

    In most cases we will be 50%+ to win the the pot. That would be an equity of around $680. $580 to win $1360 is about 42.6% to break even - about the same equity as if one opponent had Queens and the other one had Ax in spades where the X is not a K or 8.


    Add in the possibility that Villain may have been isolating without a hand that they would call your shove with. If they fold you now have $590 and a free roll for the rest of the $440 in the pot.

    Get your money in there!!

    As far as re-running the side pot goes, that depends on how risk adverse you are to losing the $580. If that $580 is needed to keep playing then you may want to agree to run it more than once. But if you are that risk adverse then you might want to follow comp's advice - but just realize that you are leaving money on the table in that case.
  • Worst case you have 8 outs...

    All the straight cards give you the goods / pure nuts

    Mark
  • Worst case you have 8 outs...

    All the straight cards give you the goods / pure nuts

    Mark
  • pokerJAH wrote: »
    What's your move here?

    2/5 in BB with J10s, two callers and you decide to call. SB (who is short stack w about $140 left) raises to $20, the rest of us call.

    Flop 9sQs7h

    SB shoves for remaining $120, next player folds and villian makes it $250. You have about $580 left and villian has you covered. Villian has been playing pretty aggressively and calling down light. Not afraid to mix it up. To me it seemed like an isolation raise as short stack seemed ready to shove on any flop.

    btw - this is a home game and you are allowed to run a side pot more than once. In case this has any bearing on your decision?

    break wrists pushing in.

    but i suck at cash games.
  • I was just wondering what AINEC meant. I should of been more clear.
  • DataMn wrote: »
    As far as re-running the side pot goes, that depends on how risk adverse you are to losing the $580. If that $580 is needed to keep playing then you may want to agree to run it more than once. But if you are that risk adverse then you might want to follow comp's advice - but just realize that you are leaving money on the table in that case.

    Isn't it always better to run it more than once when you are behind (small assumption with this flop action) and you still need to catch up?

    Wait to hear from my high holiday buddy.
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